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'Baronne Prévost' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 93-560
most recent 11 JAN 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 JUN 16 by bumblekim
Only about 3.5 feet in height, but flowers are huge and with a huge scent to match! Very photogenic, and lots of variations in blooms, some are quartered, some have button eyes, some are like Bourbons or Damasks.
Zone 5b
Reply #1 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by thebig-bear
May I ask how old your Baronne Prevost is?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by bumblekim
He has been growing at the E.M. Mills garden in Syracuse, NY for many many years, I will inquire at the meeting tomorrow to see if the info is available about when it was planted. I am guessing 10 to 20 years?
Reply #3 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by thebig-bear
Thanks, I was intrigued because of the size of 3.5 feet - I have always heard that this rose gets quite big - is it pruned hard back or something? I know it is very forgiving.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 11 JAN 17 by bumblekim
It may well have been larger in the past, I know we experienced horrible windy freezing winters, including those "polar vortex" types, recently, even the Veilchenblau that had taken over trellises had tremendous die-off. I am always happy when anything survived the winter even if it is only 3 feet of the plant :(
Discussion id : 44-497
most recent 18 OCT 14 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 MAY 10 by kev
i firmly believe unless we know parentage of old roses,even then with great caution,we should not be changeing families to which a particular variety was originally placed by the rosiers of the day who bred them.1) because many are natures own crosses and the actual crosses are not known.
2)The breeders themslves didnt keep a complete listing of their work.
3)the listings of the crosses were lost.
For these reasons it is best to go with where the old men who knew those plants as new children of the rose family,and leave their oppions intact.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 9 MAY 10 by Cass
I, on the other hand, believe that breeders often classify and name their roses on the basis of commercial realities that are not always aligned with genetic realities.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 18 OCT 14 by CybeRose
I agree ... and so did E. G. Hill:

The Gardener's Monthly 17: 194 (July 1875)
La France Rose
E. G. Hill, Richmond, Ind.

Your correspondent S. S. P., is at a loss to know why American florists persist in classing this rose among the H.P.'s, and affirms that Van Houtte has it in its proper place. I can see no valid reason for classing it as an H. Noisette, for it certainly shows no characteristic of the Noisette class, that I can discern. No one can doubt, on comparison, that Boule de Neige, Coquette des Alpes, Perle des Blanches, are very near relations of Aimie Vibert, and Caroline Marniesse, and others of the Noisette class, and so we find them properly classed as Hybrid Noisette in many of the catalogues. But La France is either a cross between the Tea and H.P., or between the China and H.P. One might fancy there was considerable of Clara Sylvain (china) in the form of the flower; but undoubtedly it is a cross between the two classes mentioned.

There is as much propriety in placing it among the H. Bourbon as among the H. Noisette, or H. Perpetual, for in appearance it is not very unlike S. Malmaison.

But if we must have separate classes for the varieties that are so fortunate as to get Tea, Bourbon, and Noisette blood in their veins, let them be placed in classes where their character and parentage may be readily understood by the name designating the class, or else throw them all into one class to be known as Hybrids of Noisette, Bourbon, China, or Tea. The firm by which I am employed, and many others, give as their reason for not doing so, the fear of multiplying the number of classes, thereby tending to confusion, for the complaint is of too many classes already. My observation fails to discover any very prominent "types" as suggested by your correspondent. Cheshunt Hybrid is no doubt a cross from the Tea section, but it is very unlike La France, being of climbing habit.

Notice Triumph d'Anjers and Mlle. Descamps, the last named having apparently as much of the Hermosa about it, as it would dare take and still retain its identity as cross between the H.P. and Bourbon classes; the first named is undoubtedly a Bourbon as far as habit and freedom of bloom are concerned, and yet it retains much of the H.P. character in the leaf and form of flower; but I can not recall any others that might be called types of La France.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 10 OCT 12 by mtspace
Sounds like we are all three on the same sheet of music here.

To clarify: I've read that the practice at one of the larger nineteenth century French rose breeders was to start 250,000 rose plants from seed per year. So a breeder would know a rose cultivar "like a child" in about the sense that any parent who raised 250,000 children per year could know a given child well. Even accounting for how one might treat favorites and for the availability of help, the pressures of culling, tending the roses, tending the business, and bringing new roses into a competitive market would severely limit how much time a breeder could spend with a rose and how well a rose could be known by the breeder at its introduction. Thousands of person-years' experience among dedicated rose gardeners who have no commercial interest in the classification might count for at least as much.
Discussion id : 67-540
most recent 25 OCT 12 SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 OCT 12 by mtspace
Because of its strong, pleasant odor and lovely shade of dark rose, I am always thrilled when my Baronne Prevost produces a blossom. I use the singular here deliberately because this rose plant - which has been in the ground for five years and has countless four foot tall canes and half a dozen eight foot tall canes - never produces more than one blossom. All these canes, btw, are perfectly vertical with almost no arching going on. It stands ramrod straight like bamboo. The plant produces several buds each spring which are ravaged by some desiccating insect until they dry out and fail to open. Absent these insects in the fall the plant makes a single blossom. The problem I have is that as profoundly fond as I am of this annual 3 inch fragrant blossom I find myself eyeing this space for use by a rose that might produce, two maybe three times as many blossoms in a year. I would hope they might be at least as pretty as this one i.e. of middling or better form. And they must be chock-full of delicious fragrance. So what should I do?

1) prune Baronne Prevost severely next year; give it one last chance.
2) move Baronne Prevost to a far corner of the garden where the lack of bloom will be less of a problem
3) plant a fragrant, repeat flowering rose with powerful fragrance in its place. (suggestions welcome.)
4) fertilize again and hope for the best.
5) chuck it and plant monarda in its place.
6) selectively prune out old canes, use branch spreaders, and train the long canes horizontally.

Other info: I had the same problem with Mons. Tillier which I pruned to the ground last year. The rose never recovered. Hermosa, six feet away blooms happily. Roxy, planted at the feet of Baronne Prevost blooms happily. Until a damp monsoon season this August when new growth suffered a bit of powdery mildew, it's had not a touch of disease, but it may have been under-watered for its first two years in this location.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 15 OCT 12 by GoldenAge
I don't have this rose -- yet. But I think you should try pegging it first. If it has a lot of growth, it seems a shame to move it at this point. All the roses I've trained horizontally bloomed better the next spring. Will cutting back a hybrid perpetual postpone blooming more? I know it's a totally different rose, but I cut back my white Lady Banks by half right before it ate half the house and got no blooms the next spring -- lots of new green though. If that space isn't too premium, I think pegging is worth a try.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 15 OCT 12 by Patricia Routley
I don't wonder your Monsieur Tiller never recovered. You just do NOT prune teas like this.
Try a little sulphate of potash on your Baronne Prevost, perhaps a teaspoonful once a month for three months in spring.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 25 OCT 12 by mtspace
Thank you, both.

UPDATE May 2013

I had resolved to move Baronne Prevost this winter after five disappointing seasons during which it produced a total of six blossoms. But I never quite got around to digging it up. Finally spring came, the plant greened up, and I decided to let nature take its course. Gradually, as leaves covered the ten canes that had grown to eight feet in height last year, the canes became more horizontal. By late spring they presented as nice arches, about five feet high. At this point, each of those arched canes has perhaps ten or twenty fat buds showing color.

The rose promises to make more than ten times as many blossoms this year as it has made in its entire existence in my garden.

I knew that it takes some time for a rose to build up, but I confess that I did not understand what a difference time can make. Or how long the process can be. Sometimes patience and doing nothing is the best course of action. I think pegging would have done essentially the same thing.

UPDATE May 2015

Now the canes are very long. They go straight up for six or seven feet. Then they arch and approach the ground, stretching five or six feet from the center of the plant in every direction. As the canes approach the ground they sprout laterals that bear blossoms. These are among the most fragrant in the garden and therefore are ravaged by thrips. Still, because I spray very little, thrips are eventually brought under control by lady beetles. Hopefully in the near future this will happen before Baronne Prevost has finished blooming for the season. What a pity it is that thrips have olfactory senses that align so perfectly with our own. This is among the most delightfully fragrant roses I've known.
Discussion id : 63-423
most recent 10 APR 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 10 APR 12 by CybeRose
The variation of animals and plants under domestication, Volume 1 (1876)
By Charles Darwin
Mr. Rivers, as I am informed by him, possessed a new French rose with delicate smooth shoots, pale glaucous-green leaves, and semi-double pale flesh-coloured flowers striped with dark red; and on branches thus characterised there suddenly appeared in more than one instance, the famous old rose called the Baronne Prevost, with its stout thorny shoots, and immense, uniformly and richly coloured double flowers; so that in this case the shoots, leaves, and flowers, all at once changed their character by bud-variation.
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