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'Russell's Cottage Rose' Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 87-688
most recent 18 JAN 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 5 SEP 15 by Nastarana
A description and picture appear in The Random House Book of Old Roses, (New York, 1998), a pamphlet by Roger Phillips and Martyn Rix., on page 75.

Phillips and Rix suggest the parents might be "a climbing Damask x Rosa arvensis'". If it was imported from the Far East, it can hardly be a hybrid of either R. arvensis or R. setigira.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 18 JAN 17 by Andrew from Dolton
I can not see any trace of Rosa arvensis in this rose anywhere.
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Discussion id : 69-369
most recent 12 JAN 13 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 11 JAN 13 by Tammy-EastTN-6a
USDA 2b thorugh 2b? It think that may be an error :)
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 12 JAN 13 by jedmar
Definitely!
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Discussion id : 65-528
most recent 3 JUL 12 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 JUL 12 by CybeRose
The Gardener's Magazine and Register of Rural & Domestic Improvement 2: 217 (March, 1827)
266 Russelliana; the Cottage rose of Messrs. Cormack and Sinclair, pale red, large size.
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Discussion id : 56-665
most recent 18 AUG 11 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 15 AUG 11 by Patricia Routley
There is an old gallica-looking rose in my garden that came in under six different “study names”, three from Western Australia and three from South Australia. It has generated just about the same number of questions in my mind. The rose has many other names as well and which are:

Old Spanish Rose. The name hints at it being found, or bred in SPAIN. I have not been able to find anything on this name.

Souvenir de la Bataille de Marengo. Was a rose growing in the plains where a tumultuous battle took place in northern ITALY in 1800 when Napoleon defeated the Austrians. A silly mind can picture an officer picking, not a sprig of Rosemary, but a sprig of this rose to take to a new widow.

Scarlet Grevillea. ‘Russelliana’ is certainly not scarlet, so I feel that this name was a simple comparison between our darker rose and the lighter R. multifora platyphylla (syn: Grevillea).

Russelliana. It has been put forward by Charles Quest-Ritson that it may have been named after a Lewisham nurseryman called John Russell (1731-1794). His nursery was once the largest in the London area.
Or that it was named after John Russell, 6th Duke of Bedford (1766-1839), amateur botanist and collector of plants. Helpmefind.com are mentioning an 1831 reference that it was Lady Georgiana Russell’s rose.
So – was it bred in ENGLAND.

Cottage Rose (or Russell’s Cottage Rose). Heaven knows. Both the above Russell’s probably lived in rather more than a cottage. A date of 1840 has been connected with this name.

So there are the names this old rose carries. They hint at it coming from Spain, Italy, or England.

Looking at the dates quoted for this rose - and mentally setting aside that 1800 Italian battle for the moment. Charles Quest-Ritson postulate that John Russell’s nursery in the UK may have had the rose in 1810, but due to a death, it had not been not released. By 1826, published literature say it was introduced by Cormack and Sinclair. Brent Dickerson was using pre-1844 and had probably picked this up from Robert Buist’s 1844 book The Rose Manual. His later 2007 book Old Roses: The Master List, page 582 is showing a date of pre-1836. Helpmefind is showing a date of 1840 for ‘Cottage Rose’.

I don’t understand the 1831 reference which says “Lady Georgiana Russell’s, Britain”.
As far as I can see, Russelliana may have been named after John Russell, 6th Duke of Bedford 1766 -1839. He married Georgiana Bing in 1786 who died in 1801. He later remarried in 1803 to Georgina Gordon 1782-1853 and one of their children was named Georgiana. (born ? – died 1867)
I don’t think the 1831 reference refers to the first Lady Georgiana Russell because the rose was possibly not around when she died in 1801. It had to refer to the daughter, Georgiana Russell, who married Charles Romilly. But would she have been Lady Georgiana? There is such a tiny difference, an ‘a’, between the name of the second wife Georgina and the daughter Georgiana. Is there any more information to be had from the 1831 reference?

Sir Charles Greville was instrumental in getting docks built and a Royal Dockyard at Milford Haven in Pembrokeshire was built during the Napoleonic wars. The rose ‘Souvenir de la Bataille de Marengo’ commemorated the 1800 battle when Napoleon defeated the Austrians. Charles Quest-Ritson [Historic Rose Journal No. 28, p26, 2004] has said that John Russell’s nursery possibly had ‘Russelliana’ by 1810 but he infers that the rose was bred in England and was not a renaming.

There have been other hints of renamed roses in the plot. Look at the 1994 Scanniello reference for ‘Pallagi panache’. Ah, the more I stir the pages, the more the plot thickens.
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 15 AUG 11 by jedmar
I love it! The second Lady Russell (Duchess of Bedford) was apparently also called Georgiana (July 18, 1781 Gordon Castle - February 24, 1853 Nice). Georgina is an error in Wikipedia. Her daughter Lady [yes, she is a Lady, too ] Georgiana Elizabeth Russell (June 23, 1809 - March 22, 1867). The engraving of ca. 1840 probably shows the daughter. Thorvaldsen, the danish sculptor, made in 1815 a bust showing the daughter.

The "Hortus cantabrigiensis" does not give further information, except on p. 511, where the colour is listed as light purple. 'Russel's cottage rose', 'Russelliana', 'Lady Georgiana Russell's' seem to indicate that this rose was obtained in John and Georgina Russell's garden. More to follow?
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 16 AUG 11 by Patricia Routley
Not much more to follow, Jedmar, but many thanks for your help.
There is the 1900 reference where the Roseriaie de l’Hay were listing both Scarlet Grevillea and Russelliana. And the 1845 Rivers catalogue reference which lists four Grevillei’s and this seems almost as though they were a style (or class) of rose.
The 1838 reference to R. sempervirens Russelliana is interesting. I wonder if that should read sempervirens (full stop)

The first bush came into my garden in 2003 from Rose Marsh. She had rescued it from a Muradup property and thought it may be ‘Anais Segales’. The second and third came in 2004 from Ruth Jones and Carol Mansfield and it seems someone imported the rose from an Eastern states nursery, for both came under the name of ‘Robert le Diable’. The fourth rose also came in 2004 from SA under the study name of “Mrs. Gibb’s Gallica” (sometimes these study names are more honest than the guesses). Number five drifted in in 2009 and was also a SA founding called “Horner’s Rose”. And in 2010 after the most stunning photo came into my email, the sixth version study-named “Bron’s Fenceline Mauve” had to be requisitioned. Both Pat Toolan and Margaret Furness were involved in rescuing and sending me the roses from South Australia. Some time after the sixth one arrived, the penny began to drop that all roses just might be the same. These “lurkers from the past” only flower in early spring and one has only one chance to compare them. If you miss that chance, it doesn’t really matter with this rose because it is a great survivor and it WILL still be there next year. One thing which has certainly helped was taking photographs; and the distinctive and pronounced resinous feel and smell from the glands on the pedicel, similar to a moss rose. (Do most gallica’s smell resinous?) The foliage is matt, a very dark green, deeply veined, obovate or orbicular and coarse looking. The much lighter reverse is covered with downy hairs. The canes have a multitude of thorns like little needles, with larger thorns down below.

It flowers in clusters and the small-to-medium-sized, very double and flat bloom has been described as a rich dark lake, changing to lilac; a vinous red or deep purple, some white striping, and paling at the edges. The rose really looks better at a distance, rather than close up, as the blooms age at a different rate and there are always untidy petals. People have written that it is fragrant but I just can’t recall any perfume.
The bush is almost a rambler and I have read of it growing for hundreds of feet along roadsides in California. I did see a huge shed-sized patch of it at the Moser house in 2005. It is not known what the parentage was, but R. setigera, R. rugosa, R. multiflora or a gallica rose have been put forward.

One puzzling thing is that I did not find any evidence of Russelliana, or its other synonyms, coming into Australia. Trevor Nottle [Australian Rose Annual 1988 p83] did presume that Sir William Macarthur at Camden Park would have had this rose among others “which are still being found in very old gardens and cemeteries” Perhaps it snuck in under cover as an understock?
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 16 AUG 11 by jedmar
The 1838 reference to R. sempervirens Russelliana is corraborated by other sources, too. Please see this listing on HMF. It seems that this blush Russelliana is attributed to George Sinclair, who was the gardener to John Russell. It seems therefore quite probable that the purple Russelliana is also from Sinclair. Sinclair seems to have been a very knowledgable gardener, with various treatises on grasses, etc. In one source he is hailed as a genetic experimentator before Darwin. I would guess that he did not actively breed these roses, but grew them from open pollinated hips in Lord and Lady Bedford's garden.

What is interesting is that one source from 1827 calls the sempervirens as the "Cottage Rose". It is not quite clear which of the 2 Russelliana early sources mention, unless there is an explicit description of colour. Sweet (1830) mentions 'Russell's Cottage' which could be the sempervirens, while 'Lady Georgiana Russell's' could be the multiflora in "Hortus Cantabrigiensis", but the sempervirens in "Hortus Woburnensis" (y = yellow? w = white? - unfortunately this abbreviation is not explained in the book).
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 16 AUG 11 by jedmar
Patricia, I think we can forget 'Souvenir de la Bataille de Marengo' as a synonym of 'Russelliana'. The first mention of this name is in an article by Nancy Lindsay in 1957. There is no earlier evidence at all. Her flexible ways with truth are well-known by now.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 17 AUG 11 by Patricia Routley
Well, that gets rid of ‘Souvenir de la Bataille de Marengo’, and I note “Old Spanish Rose” now has those double quotes of as pre-1958 foundling. ‘Scarlet Grevillea’ doesn’t bother me; and I can see that ‘Russelliana’ is a UK rose. That just leaves a question or two about the colour of the ‘Cottage Rose’. I had a read this morning of some un-indexed ‘Floricultural Cabinet’s from the 1830s but found nothing. This has been one of the most interesting and satisfying rosy quests I have ever gone on. Never before have I obtained so many answers in such a short time. Thanks Jedmar.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 18 AUG 11 by Ozoldroser
Patricia you are indeed a sleuth of the first order. 'Russelliana' is so distinctive that you can spot it easily. The growth, flower etc seem so different to most roses that I find it hard to actually put it in any glass(sorry meant class) Gallica is there but it is the mix of others that is confusing to me.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 18 AUG 11 by jedmar
A number of references mention R. setigera, which was available in Europe from the 1800s onwards.
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