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Lovely! I assume this is the Buenos Aires garden, not the one in Patagonia?
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Hello Margaret!!, the photo it's in patagonia, past december, my garden was splendid, the ashes of the vulcano gives them a lot of energy! and flower like I never saw before!,... but now become a desert... no rain in the last 40 days, and the volcan continuous erupting ashes all days, and its very hot summer, so, I enjoy the paradise for a month, and no complains...And, the teas are very happy!!, and these last days I was thinking a lot of you, Margaret, I am thinking to send you a post with photos of a lovely tea flowering now (the plant its no so big, she is three years old, from a cut, grows in own roots), I found it in a farm in Buenos Aires, its similar to Archiduc Joseph, and Mrs. B.R. Cant in colour and shape (not so big than the last) and more pink than A.Joseph, she changes a lot with different temperatures, the leaves are mor dark than A.Joseph, but similar, so the plant. My be you can say something about it?, I am thinking my be Monsieur Tillier?, its my fantasy dream...Thank you for your post Margaret!
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I'll ask some Tea experts to look at them - I'm not an expert!
It's complicated, because the rose sold in Australia as Archiduc Joseph is the same as Mons. Tillier. General Schablikine is very similar, and would be my guess. In my garden it starts flowering earlier in spring.
I'm impressed that you can grow Teas so well in Patagonia - how cold does it get in winter? Does that part of the garden get snow often?
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I am so happy that Tea grow so well here, I love them, and yes the temperature in winter go -10 cent, sometimes, and there is a lot of snow in my garden, but don't last so much, the temperature vary so much all the year, I can say that is very caotic time, included in summer, one day in past december it go under cero!, I was planted few days before 'Sanguinea' china, and I think it's lost, but for example last year I planted a cut that grows in a pot for one year (what I think is, now I get one garantided) Souv. de Mme. Leonie Viennot, and now she is 2m. tall and flower splendid in december, I will post photos of it
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Hi Rafael
Thanks for sharing the photos of your found Tea. It is a beautiful thing.
It would be useful to have more information about its botanical features and a few more photos.
It is always terribly difficult to identify Tea roses from photographs. Even in places without great extremes of temperature, they can vary so much. With your great extremes of temperature, volcanic soil AND volcanic ash, Teas roses are probably showing very wide variations in colour and form.
A few questions.
Number of Petals: Does this rose vary greatly in the number of petals. In your photos, it looks very full, with the petals nesting inside one another. Are there times when it has simpler blooms with fewer petals?
Leaves: I can see leaves with coarse serrations on the leaf margins in some photos and smoother leaf margins in other photos. Are all these leaves from the same rose or from a rose planted nearby?
Pedicel: Does the pedicel - the flower stalk immediately below the bud - have any prickles, bristles or glands? Does it feel smooth or rough to the touch?
Receptacle: In your photos, the receptacle (ovary) is cup-shaped. Does this shape vary? Does it become more flared at the top or more constricted at the top to make more of a globular or oval shape?
Colour of the bloom: On my screen, the bloom looks similar to the colour of Mrs BR Cant - a warm, blue-based pink. How much does it vary from this colour? Does it just get lighter and darker, or does the colour range into shades of yellow-based pink like salmon, coral or terracotta shades? Is it ever very pale? Pale lilac or buff? If you pull the bloom apart, is there yellow at the base of the petal? Is the front of the petal consistently lighter or darker than the back of the petal?
Bloom form: From your photos it looks like this rose has quite large outer petals, that it has quite a deep cup-shape when partly open and then becomes flatter as it opens completely. Is this right?
Stems and prickles: Is there anything worth noting about the colour of the new stems and prickles? Can you watch the colour of the prickles and note the colours they go through as they age.
Hips?: It's probably too early to tell, but if you don't cut off the spent blooms, do they form hips (and if so, can you describe their size, shape and colour).
History of the plant: Have you been able to discover anything about the history of this plant? Do you know when it was planted? Is there anyone living who remembers anything about it?
Study Name: Have you given this rose a study name?
Thanks for the chance to see this lovely rose.
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Hi Billy, thank you for your interest, this rose it's a big dilemma, I take a cut from a big plant (I don't know exactly the size, may be 4 or 5m. growing in a pergola), totally neglected, but in very good health, flowering almost all year, in an old farm in Buenos Aires, that is to say, warm place. The new owner acquire this farm about 20 years ago, and the rose was there, nobody knows the origin, I think the house and the pergola are from the beguinning of s. XX, (I can't ask now to the owner, she lives most of the time at New York, and she have little interest in roses, even if I name the rose with her name "Finita Ayerza"...glamorous...don't you think?...). But tomorrow i will answer your questions, (now is late night), the best I can. I can tell you now, that the rose changes so much, this year its seems another rose from past year, as you can see in the photos, the last one I post is from the past year, it open flat from a cup bud and the colour was totally different, was more yellow-based, salmon and terracota shaded in the inside petals, now this year (the summer is very warm, dry, an the sun burns terribly), the colour seems totally pink silvery, no shadows, and cup-shape, not open flat, I think the cause is so much hot, the flowers don't last very long, (and to my regret and angry, there is an horrible invasion of trips!!!). But I have so much interest and love so much this rose, that i will try to respond the best I can to your questions, and try to post more photos. And thank you so much again Billy
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I'm a bit confused here - are the first group of photos of your "Finita Ayerza" and the second group of your Souvenir de Mme Leonie Viennot? Or are they all of the same rose?
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Sorry Billy, the last photo I post of this rose is labelled "found S.de Mme L. Viennot??" , I confused when I post the photo, it's the same rose "F.Ayerza", I posted this later, that's why I confused. And it looks different because is from the past year, as I said in my last post. Then yes I post photos of Souvenir de Mme L. Viennot ??in the following post I write
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Hello Billy,
Some answers to your questions:
Number of petals: Yes this rose vary greatly in the number of petals, today I take a photo of a new flower, (there is the only open), and is so different of the others in the photos I post yesterday, it is a more simple bloom than the others. I post the photo now
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The leaves: I take photos of the leaves of "Finita Ayerza", 'Mrs.B.R. Cant', and 'Archiduc Joseph' (what we know here in Argentina for the last two), here are the photos, I hope it tell you something, you must notice that the leaves of A. Joseph have only three leaflets, I find no leaves with more than three in this plant, my be this is because the plant it's very young yet and must consider that here the winter is long, and the teas develop more slowly than in wormer areas, this plant have (in earth) 4 years, is very healthy and flowers very well, I post photos of it in 'A. Joseph' item.
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Pedicel: Have no prickles, no bristles nor glands, and I can say that is quite smooth...?, in any case it's not rough (my be because I love her....I'm joking..)
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Receptacle: I can't say too much about it because I cut dead flowers, I will left the news, but what I can see in the young buds is that the receptacle is cup-shaped, and in the dead flowers i cut I think the tendency is to grow globular and constricted in the top... but I will see how it go in the future
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Stems and Prickles: young stems are beautiful deep red-brown,then green. Prickles are red, and age dark brown. I post photos
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As you can see, the rose have not so many prickles, it have more in old canes, and as I remember, one thing that I notice in the original plant was that it had few prickles in general.
Thank you Billy, and keep on touch
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Thanks very much for the extra information and photographs - They are excellent - and such a good illustration of the variation in bloom form!
Each of your photos reminds me of a photo of one Tea rose or another but unfortunately, not the same rose!
Perhaps "Finita Ayerza" could have its own entry on HMF and you could keep adding photos and observations over the seasons to build up a bigger picture?
I will be away from home for a while, but when I return will check in to see if there are more photos etc.
And if I have a flash of recognition or inspiration about the identity of your rose, I'll be in touch.
Billy
[red face about birch leaves]
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Rafael, Thanks for posting the lovely pic of your garden in Patagonia.We have friends in Buenos Aires who also garden in Patagonia and they say the roses are amazing there, growing very well.. Many years ago, when we visited Uruguay, our friend Mercedes drove us southwards near the ocean and in an abandoned house we saw a vigorous rose plant growing and she told us that it was Francois Juranville.
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Thank you, Girija and Viru , it's an honour for me to receive your congratulations, knowing your work and love for roses. Here in this part of Patagonia it's a fantastic place to grow roses, specially Albas, Damask and Gallicas, but surprisingly I am growing teas, and they grow so healthy, in spite of long and rainy winter, even a Gigantea...not flower yet, but don't seem to suffer winter, it's an experiment, may be she decide to flower some day...Thank you again, and may be sometime you can visit Patagonia and my garden
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Rafael, Thanks for your kind comments. Where exactly in Patagonia are you? We looked up the map and its a huge province. If you are near the sea perhaps the equalising climate enables you to grow Teas. We too are most interested in your gigantea.. is it the species? Perhaps some Gigantea hybrids may do well, certainly worth a try.
We would love to visit Patagonia, but it seems so far away!!! Thanks for your invitation.. one never knows what the future holds, it may be that we will visit you!!
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Hello Girija and Viru, I am in the west and near of the north of Patagonia, in a very beautiful place at 20km from San Carlos de Bariloche city, at the foot of the cordillera de Los Andes surrounded by enormous lakes and natives woods, now, since june of the past year affected by the ashes of a vulcan placed in Chile, but this don't affect the roses, by the contrary, cured oidio that is so common here because the differences in temperatures between day and night. The 'Gigantea" that I am growing it's a species, I planted two years ago under an apple tree, (here apples trees grow naturally and savages), and the rose climb up the tree, and don't suffer frost in the past two winters, not even one leave fall, but she don't flower yet. I and a friend get two plants at the same time, but my friend's garden is in the country of Buenos Aires, and her plant grow double or triple than mine, and flowers splendid... but I don't loose hope...best regards
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You can google the place, my be you can see my cottage!!, I am in Península San Pedro, S.C. de Bariloche, Provincia de Rio Negro, Argentina. Best wishes
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You look like you're almost surrounded by water! That may stabilise the climate a bit.
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Yes, Peninsula San Pedro is surrounded by water of a big lake named Nahuel Huapi, it's an indian (Mapuche) name, an this temperate the weather, the winter is very rainy. Obviously the tea Roses are induced to sleep, and don't grow all the year like in warm climate, but up to now none of them suffer frost damage, except 'Sanguinea', that I carry from Buenos Aires and plant it in earth (error), and a surprising late frost in december kill her...
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They are different roses
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all the photos of the first group are "Finita Ayerza", and all the photos of the second group are S.deL. Viennot
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Thanks Rafael - I see what you mean about the difference in form & colour difference in the last photo.
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The different leaves you can see behind the rose are from a birch tree (abedul in spanish)
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