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'Étoile de Hollande, Cl.' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 77-739
most recent 23 NOV 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 21 APR 14 by Patricia Routley
For many years I have been watching Jay-Jay load his very beautiful photos of ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ on to HelpMefind. In front of my Australian computer screen there has often been the envious gnashing of teeth and puzzled lines furrowing the brow. For ‘Etoile de Hollande’ does not blue apparently. In Australia there has been a large blueing rose sent out as ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ and the rose I received under this name originally came from Ross Roses in South Australia. In 1994 Ross Roses donated a Heritage Roses in Australia ‘Scripta award’ in the form of a ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ Rose to Rose Marsh in Kojonup, WA. Mrs. Marsh gave me a cutting of her rose in 2001. I have uploaded Ross Roses photo of ‘Etoile de Hollande Cl.’ from the ‘Australian Rose Annual 1994, page 49 and because of the wavy leaf edge, I have no doubt that it is the same rose I now grow. I think it is a spring-bloomer – I can’t be absolutely sure of this - but all my photos are dated September to December.

I have always doubted the veracity of this rose because it blues so much - only a few times have I seen a sparkling bright red crimson bloom. In 2005 I saw a similar rose (named ‘Etoile de Hollande’[?Cl.] ) in California at the Berkeley Rose Garden where I noted it was purple red big bloom.

‘Gloire de Hollande’ is hovering at the back of my mind. In 1923 Wilhelm Kordes said it had good growth and that it sometimes blued. But there were many old roses which blued and I am just not sure which one my rose actually is.

[Later edit (Nov 23, 2017). My photos deleted from the 'Etoile de Hollande Cl.' file. My rose may be 'Hadley Cl.' but I need more proof.]
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Reply #1 of 14 posted 21 APR 14 by Jay-Jay
Hi Patricia,
I didn't know You were so "envious" of my rose. ;-)
It never blued my Cl. Étoile de Hollande''.... In contrary: in warm sunny weather, the flowers get a more bright-red colour. (the same for the non climbing version until now)
In cooler conditions the flower(bud)s are darker. It is a reliant repeat-bloomer, that is one of the first and one of the last. Four or five flushes, but almost never without flowers. It blooms on new as on old and older wood.
'Winschoten' is the rose in our garden, that has the blues "badly'. At first a negative for me, but the scent is formidable!
I hope and wish for You, that there once might be a real Cl. Étoile de Hollande for You in Australia, for when I were allowed to keep just one rose out of my garden... it would be this rose!
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Reply #3 of 14 posted 21 APR 14 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Jay-Jay. Both you and I grow about 55 roses in common and I am always interested in your photographs. - you have such a beautiful garden. Your love for your ‘Etoile de Hollande’ comes across loud and clear in your photos and comments. (Your foliage looks a little more elongated than my round foliage). I am sure the real non-blueing ‘Etoile de Hollande’ is in Australia somewhere. I just wanted to alert Australians that if their plant blues, then perhaps they should question the veracity
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Reply #4 of 14 posted 22 APR 14 by Jay-Jay
Thank You for Your kind words Patricia.
I will make some photo's of the foliage. The stiff, but brittle blueish red new growth (of canes) is typical for this rose.
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Reply #5 of 14 posted 24 APR 14 by Jay-Jay
Some promised photo's of the foliage/leaves, one bud and to detox... The first spray of flowerbuds in years on my plant.
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Reply #6 of 14 posted 25 APR 14 by Patricia Routley
Jay-Jay - those photos were so helpful. I think I might be wrong and that I might just have the real 'Etoile de Hollande' after all. Your photos of the leaves are round (as mine are) and have that pointed tip (as mine do). and they have the new red leaves (as mine do) and the rare new canes are purple-ish. I have on occasions seen the occasional bright red crimson bloom here, but mostly it "blues". My plant is fairly near the septic tank in a lawn and it is surrounded by stiff clay. Perhaps it just goes blue with indigestion. I might take a cutting and put it elsewhere. Thank you my friend.
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Reply #7 of 14 posted 25 APR 14 by Jay-Jay
You're welcome Patricia.
I might have given You an "overkill" of photo's of the foliage, but it did no harm, I suppose.
I can delete some, if they take too much space.
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Reply #8 of 14 posted 2 MAY 14 by Jay-Jay
To my surprise, it turns blue-ish after some days, when cut and on a vase. Not turning into blue-ish when on the plant and in bright sunlight.
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Reply #2 of 14 posted 21 APR 14 by Jay-Jay
PS: You uploaded photo's of Your rose, but it looks familiar as for habit, colour of the new canes, the laterals with flowers, the buds (are they a bit felty, where they open?) look-a-like and the leafs.
But the whitish reverse of the petals is unfamiliar. And the petals mostly do not curl that much, so no starshaped flowers.
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Reply #9 of 14 posted 16 NOV 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
jay-jay: Really appreciate the info. you gave on this rose. How big does it get after your zone 6 winter? Does the fragrance perfume the entire room? Thanks for any info.
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Reply #10 of 14 posted 16 NOV 16 by Jay-Jay
After a zone 6 winter, it isn't harmed at all and has to be pruned and (partially) be trained again.

Best prune it during the season too, for it grows laterals meters long! Or let it climb as high as 10 m! (take a look at this photo of Jedmar: http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/pics.php?imgID=187040 at an earlier discussion started November 18 2011)
But I wouldn't recommend that.

Just take a look at earlier photo's of mine after the zone 5 winter of 2012. (2012-04-24 )
It froze badly, had to cut it back to approximately 25cm, but came back vividly and grew over 3 meters per cane. See follow-up photo's!
That the lower part survived, was due to covering leaves and a pile of snow.
In Your region, I wouldn't train it on a metal fence or structure, but on a wooden structure, pole or tie it to plasticized steel-wire. (see photo)
And yes, the fragrance perfumes the entire room, when the flowers are cut at the right time. (not in blazing sunlight and not when completely opened)
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Reply #11 of 14 posted 16 NOV 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Thank you for the info. There are very few roses that can perfume the entire room, Comte de Chambord, Duchess de Rohan, Annie L. McDowell, Firefighter, Dee-lish are the few that can. One zone 5b person grows E. de Hollande, so I hope that can survive my zone 5a winter.
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Reply #12 of 14 posted 23 NOV 17 by Jay-Jay
Patricia, I saw Your today's edit of the original post and wanted to update my experience:
'Étoile de Hollande Cl.' only blued just a little for me after a few days, when cut for the vase and brought inside.
Outdoors it never blued and in fact it got a lighter red color in hot sunny periods.
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Reply #13 of 14 posted 23 NOV 17 by Patricia Routley
That is very nice of you Jay-Jay. My plant blued very much - far too much for it to be the 'Etoile de Hollande' it came to me as. With time passing and more reading, I believe my plant could be 'Hadley Cl.' which did have a reputation for blueing. The pear-shaped hips of my plant also seem to be very close to those of 'Hadley' ("Bishop's Lodge Muriel Linton") which Margaret Furness uploaded.

It is interesting to look where Hadley & Etoile de Hollande came from.
Hadley 1914 (Liberty x Richmond) x General MacArthur.
Etoile de Hollande 1919 (General MacArthur x Hadley)
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Reply #14 of 14 posted 23 NOV 17 by Jay-Jay
Interesting indeed and so close related!
A deputizing (?) is easily made. I wouldn't call that a mistake.
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