HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Member
Profile
PhotosFavoritesCommentsJournalCuttingsMember
Garden
Breeder
Listing
 
Michael Garhart
most recent 10 days ago SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 18 NOV 16 by Margaret Furness
Sometimes mislabelled Blackberry Spray.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 14 posted 18 NOV 16 by Michael Garhart
The name confuses me. Blackberry is wild here, and a huge agricultural crop. Always 5 petals! Even other Rubus species are 5 petals, except for Ornamental Salmonberries.
REPLY
Reply #2 of 14 posted 18 NOV 16 by Patricia Routley
The photo confuses me too Michael. What is the provenance of this bush please Margaret?
Peter Cox (1999 reference) says 'Blackberry Blossom' was a semi-single rose and his photo shows that. Perhaps the rose has put on more petals in Renmark's fantastic soil? It actually looks a bit like it could have been one of the R. Nana roses from when people bought packets of rose seeds years ago.
REPLY
Reply #3 of 14 posted 18 NOV 16 by Margaret Furness
Provenance Morwell Rose Garden.
Baron Ferdinand von Mueller thought he was doing Australia a good turn when he encouraged widespread planting of blackberries, so people would have a food source. It has become perhaps our worst plant pest, with walls 30' /10 m high around creeks barring larger wildlife from accessing water. Among other things. It is bird-spread, and it requires repeated dosing with nasty poisons if you turn your back on it. In 'The Private Life of Plants', Sir David Attenborough described it as the most aggressive plant in the woodland. It is one of the reasons (others being R canina and the sweetbriar) why undiscriminating council workers spray roadside roses.
REPLY
Reply #4 of 14 posted 18 NOV 16 by Michael Garhart
I don't know if the ID is correct or incorrect. Even if it was semi-double, as described, the name itself would contradict this. That was what I was pointing out. Botanically, it struck me as odd. That is all.

For example, to me, it would be like calling Rosa canina the 'Carnation Rose'.

Golden Vale calls it single to near-single. I am not from Down Under, so I don't know the validity of the claim.
REPLY
Reply #5 of 14 posted 19 NOV 16 by Margaret Furness
Maybe Blackberry Blossom and Blackberry Spray are different roses, but the question would apply to both, and I haven't seen any references to Blackberry Spray.
REPLY
Reply #6 of 14 posted 19 NOV 16 by Michael Garhart
Yeah, both point to the blooms. If it was foliage descriptive, I'd think something like kordesii, Dortmund, or Rosa setigera. Funny, to me, Rosa rubus doesn't have blackberry-like leaves, but the blooms are very Rubus-like.
REPLY
Reply #7 of 14 posted 19 NOV 16 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Margaret. I've emailed Morwell to see what info they can offer.
Can you recall where you have seen it mislabelled 'Blackberry Spray'?
REPLY
Reply #8 of 14 posted 19 NOV 16 by Margaret Furness
Either ABG or Mt Lofty BG - Tina asked me recently where she could find references to Blackberry Spray, as she hadn't found any.
REPLY
Reply #9 of 14 posted 21 NOV 16 by Patricia Routley
It appears your photo is not 'Blackberry Blossom' Margaret. Morwell Rose Garden have very kindly supplied photos and I have taken the liberty of adding the photo from Peter Cox's book as well. All show a single bloom.
REPLY
Reply #10 of 14 posted 21 NOV 16 by Michael Garhart
Wow, massive foliage difference!!!!

So many white polys. How are we gonna sort out the double one? I know its not Gourmet Popcorn or Lullaby, but I have not grown other white polys.
REPLY
Reply #11 of 14 posted 21 NOV 16 by Margaret Furness
Yes, thanks for following that through Patricia. There weren't any single whites flowering in the row of Aus-bred polys earlier this month, so I guess we don't have a 'Blackberry Blossom' at Renmark.
I've removed my photo from the BB file but am attaching it to a comment under Snow Spray to think about. The leaf looks like the roses bred by Riethmuller from Gartendirektor Otto Linne. The Snow Spray we had, which came from Leonie K and was the source of Eric T's plant (see his photo), has since died. Maybe we had two.
REPLY
Reply #12 of 14 posted 1 OCT by Johno
I have grown Blackberry Spray for around thirty years and was totally unaware of the name Blackberry Blossom until I went searching for a listing for BS. As it is not listed on 'Australian Bred and Raised Roses' I doubt it has ever been registered and one could question that D. Semple bred the rose (it was found in his garden is all the references indicate). BB and BS appear to be the same rose. The blooms in the photos uploaded today have 8 petals but it is early season flowering. A dainty but rather unremarkable rose. Very easy to grow from cuttings. I would suggest that the name Blackberry Spray be added as a study name, and to allow others to easily find it.
REPLY
Reply #13 of 14 posted 1 OCT by Margaret Furness
There are several found white or white-and-pink polyanthas around (in Australia), with petal count ranging from single to double. I guess that some are spontaneous multiflora nana seedlings, rather than bred roses which have lost their names. Some have been introduced or circulated: Tarrawarra, "Wirruna White Fairy", "Garden of St Erth", "Unnamed Single Pink" (don't blame me, I didn't name it). Others were just passed on to us under study names."Foxground School", "Lavinia Evans" (Rookwood), "Hamilton, Tas". I'm not suggesting that a page be created for each if it doesn't already have one.
There are the more colourful found polys too, but I won't start on them here.
REPLY
Reply #14 of 14 posted 10 days ago by Johno
I was not suggesting a new page for Blackberry Spray but for the additional name to be added to BB. This would provide the link for anyone searching for Blackberry Spray.
REPLY
most recent 13 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 13 days ago by Michael Garhart
I'm guessing the seed parent is Caramel Fairy Tail based on traits, patent description, and traits of commercial progeny. Unsure about the pollen parent, but likely a hybrid tea.
REPLY
most recent 14 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 14 days ago by Michael Garhart
Did you have an opinion of this one? There is virtually no information about it.
REPLY
most recent 14 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 14 days ago by Michael Garhart
Something is definitely off by the recorded history of this rose. But "it is what it is," and there is no way to determine the exact accurate parentage.

I wish modern mauve types had a better recorded history, since the creation of the color is such a complexity. That's the real loss here, imo.
REPLY
Reply #1 of 1 posted 14 days ago by jedmar
Indeed the parentage is suspect. One would expect that 'Orange Triumph' as seed parent would result in a floribunda, not to speak of the colour. There is no other Hybrid Tea recorded as an offspring of 'Orange Triumph'. The German reference sees it as an offspring of 'Peace'. Maybe we will find a French source one day for correct information.
REPLY
© 2021 HelpMeFind.com