HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Margaret Furness
most recent 2 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 days ago by Margaret Furness
You are finding some interesting old illustrations. This one depicts Helen Good pretty much as a bicolour, which isn't mentioned in the description available.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 days ago by HubertG
I enjoy looking for those old illustrations ;-) I'm appreciating these hand coloured catalogue illustrations more and more because, although they can't be totally relied on for botanical details (as might an old photograph be), they often give a good overall impression of a rose's appearance. Sometimes when you view them as a thumbnail along side the other photos here, some can look rather realistic. I appreciate the artistic skill too.

The description accompanying this illustration includes: "Helen Good is a sport of the world-famous Maman Cochet. It is identical in foliage, growth, size and shape of flower with Maman Cochet. Its only difference is its color. It is a delicate pink, each petal edged deeper"

Some descriptions seem to emphasise its yellow, some its pink. A few other old references indicate darkening at the petal edges.

I wish we had this rose in Australia, by the way.
most recent 4 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 6 days ago by Margaret Furness
Watch out for friends who are compulsive deadheaders... Fortunately since it's close to the ground, it may be relatively safe.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 6 days ago by HubertG
I'll be keeping a close eye on this one, Margaret. I'm more concerned with possums and anything else that nibbles, to be honest.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 5 days ago by HubertG
After such a long dry spell, it rained fairly heavily overnight, and so not wanting to risk the whole thing rotting, I felt I had no choice but to remove all the petals. It was rather a pity really, but at least it revealed an otherwise normal Maman Cochet bloom.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 5 days ago by HubertG
I took a few photos. There were a few stamens on the flower but it didn't look as if any of the pollen sacs had opened
Reply #4 of 5 posted 5 days ago by Margaret Furness
Based on advice from various Oz rose-breeders, I remove all petals but one (that one helps to find the flower later) and the stamens from flowers I pollinate, so there's pretty well nothing left to attract bees. I put a coloured twist-tie around the stem to help find the hip later on. Warren M also cuts one sepal across to show himself that he has pollinated the flower.
Anticipating your question: no, I haven't bred anything worth releasing. There are enough mediocre roses out there already!
Reply #5 of 5 posted 4 days ago by HubertG
Yes, this wasn't fertilised in the 'proper' way because it was already open and exposed when I discovered it, so any future progeny can't be certain of their father. However that doesn't really matter that much to me because anything I get from this will still be a "seedling of Maman Cochet" which is pretty special. Although, I daresay that if the Lorraine Lee cross took, that rose is distinctive enough that I'd think I'd be able to discern some qualities of it in any seedlings.
The bread tags are a good idea because you can write the date and cross in pencil on them, and if you use a colour that stands out it's easy to find.
most recent 6 days ago HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 days ago by Ozeboy
I have not used my nursery information for some time but want to have the ability to change initial details.

The Glenorie Roses site was set up by Margaret Furness on my behalf a few years ago and was closed due to Kangaroo and Wallaby damage. The property has now been securely fenced so would like to change the initial page rather than disturb Margaret.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 7 days ago by Margaret Furness
Welcome back! I can't delete the bit about wildlife now (or take the apostrophe out of Miniatures), so maybe it wasn't me who set it up. Can't remember back that far.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 7 days ago by Patricia Routley
Ozeboy, I have taken the "closed sign" off the hook and you should now be able to change any details. You might like to update the list of roses you have as well. Send me a Private Message if I can help in any way.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Ozeboy
Hello Margaret, great to see you are still on HMF, presume you are well enough to continue the rose hobby.
Don't think we have corresponded since I sent you those 'Mrs BR Cant' sport's from Gary
That's one of the best Tea's I have ever had. Hope your's is doing well, definitely a keeper.

I am compiling an order for HT's, Floribunda's, Modern Climbers and Shrub buds to send to Ruston's. Let's hope they still have a few left. If you visit them over the next couple of months put a good word in for me please.

I let a lot of Heritage roses go as I wasn't fit enough to look after the property and have gone back to getting rid of everything that sticks up in the ground so I can run the mower over the lot to keep it tidy.

Regards, Bruce.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 6 days ago by Margaret Furness
I'm well but the D word (downsize) is looming. I gave Gary's Mrs B R Cant to Werribee, as the status of Ruston's was so uncertain. Best to check with Dianne at Ruston's now, whether they'll still be selling budwood.
I don't know if you'd caught up that Thomas for Roses isn't accepting orders for next winter; they hope to get back into things but the clock is ticking. They might be willing to sell you budwood.
Some semi-old climbers that most people won't know but are well worth growing are Marie Nabonnand, Indian Summer, Cl August Noack, Cl Mme Abel Chatenay. All in the HRAI Collection at Renmark.
most recent 11 days ago SHOW ALL
Initial post 23 MAR by Andrew from Dolton
Reply #1 of 12 posted 31 MAR by HubertG
Andrew, thank you. It really is a beautifully formed rose. That was a rainy day - bad for Alexander Hill Gray if it hasn't opened yet because it balls a bit, but good for the lighting for photography.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 31 MAR by Andrew from Dolton
I'm very envious of all these Tea roses that everyone in Australia seem to grow so well and I can only dream of.
Reply #3 of 12 posted 7 SEP by HubertG
Andrew, with the hot weather that you've had there this summer maybe you could try a few out for next year. :-)
Reply #4 of 12 posted 7 SEP by Andrew from Dolton
Yes HubertG it's certainly worth thinking about. I can grow 'Hume's Blush Tea-Scented China' reasonably well but it has to be grown against the house for extra warmth and covered with a big sheet of glass from November to April to keep the worst of the wet away. Its neighbour is what is being sold by Beales as 'Park's Yellow' but will probably turn out to be 'Fée Opale' and that has made masses of growths this year (mostly in the last four weeks) and looks very healthy. I've just ordered 'Louis VIX' which will need cosseting, but yes, if you can guarantee a few more summers like this year then I'll certainly be up for trying some teas. 'Sanguinea' and 'Archduke Charles' grow and flower after a fashion but are very weak.
Reply #5 of 12 posted 7 SEP by HubertG
I was just reading in the old Rosen-Zeitung which teas survived well through German winters. Mme Lombard was one, and Dr. Grill. I'll try to find it again and post it. I do remember them saying Francis Dubreuil suffered badly, and Maman Cochet had little damage. I think a lot of the Teas are cold hardier than often thought.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 7 SEP by Andrew from Dolton
Thanks, that will be very interesting. 'White Maman Cochet' was one I had my eye on to grow in a pot against the house and 'Dr Grill' too as it is so historically important. The winters are not such a problem but the short cool damp summers are difficult. Last year we had precipitation in one form or another almost every day from the end of July until October.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 8 SEP by HubertG
From page 61, of the 1900 Rosen Zeitung. (not a direct translation):

These were killed off in a bad winter: Mme Eug. Verdier, Francis Dubreuil, Arch. Maria Immaculata, Perle des Jardins, Sunset, Franziska Kruger and Papa Gontier.

Suffering less were: Coquette de Lyon, Hon. Edith Gifford, Mlle Christine de Noue, Maman Cochet and Princesse de Sagan.

These faired well: Andre Schwartz, Baronne Henriette de Loew, Catherine Mermet, Comtesse de Frigneuse, Dr Grill, G. Nabonnand, Grace Darling, Mme Lombard, Princesse Alice de Monaco, Princesse de Bessarabe, Souvenir de Catherine Guillot, Luciole, The Queen, Frau Geheimrat von Boch, Principessa di Napoli, Prince Theodore Galitzine and The Sweet Little Queen.

I know a lot aren't available but thought I 'd mention them just in case you want to look into their pedigrees to find clues for other hardy teas.
I'd pick Mme Lombard, G. Nabonnand (or its sport Peace) for you and maybe Grace Darling and Souv, de Catherine Guillot if it's available there. I don't know that the British Dr Grill is correct. The Cochets do ball badly in rain which might be a problem - when they are good here they are very, very good, but when they are bad they are horrid. ;-)
Reply #8 of 12 posted 10 SEP by Andrew from Dolton
This is not a direction I want my garden going in! Rather than spending a lot of extra effort trying to grow plants from warmer climates, concentrate on plants that grow well in my conditions, gallica roses for example. I did however just try to order 'White Maman Cochet' from Beales but they've sold out so I ordered 'Nuits de Young' from Trevor White instead. I am very interested though by 'Gilbert Nabonnand' and 'Dr Grill', so very tempting...

Did you ever get any plants to grow from your 'White Maman Cochet' seed?
Reply #9 of 12 posted 10 SEP by HubertG
None of the 'White Maman Cochet' seeds have germinated yet, although I didn't plant all of them. In fact of all the different seeds I planted last winter only one has germinated so far.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 11 days ago by HubertG
Andrew, I just came across this and thought I'd mention it here. There's an article in the 1914 Journal des roses, (Feb1, p22) that lists some Teas and HT's that survived the freezing winter of 1913 in France. The two Teas currently on lists that survived back then were Safrano and Mme. Jules Gravereaux.
Safrano is only semi-double (if that) and should open in damp conditions. It's a very elegant rose.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 11 days ago by Andrew from Dolton
They are both well worth considering. Margaret's picture of 'Mme. Jules Gravereaux' looking good in "a cold wet spring" is particularly encouraging.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 11 days ago by Margaret Furness
"Cold wet" is relative. Renmark gets frosts but no snow, and doesn't get much rain. Mme Jules has been slow-growing compared with most of the Tea-Noisettes (I have it listed as HT-Noisette).
© 2018