HELPMEFIND PLANTS COMMERCIAL NON-COMMERCIAL RESOURCES EVENTS PEOPLE RATINGS
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Can anyone help me identify this rose?, I believe is Rosa majalis
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A wonderfully clear set of photos Raphael. I would help if I could but do not have R. majalis.
I have noted the very glandular sepals on your rose and one of Cass's photos show this trait.
However, the old illustrations show infrastipular (just under the leaf) prickles and your photos show random prickles.
If you would like us to make a temporary special "study file" for your rose, please let us know and give us the "study name" you wish to use.
Alternatively, perhaps other members who grow R. Majalis could give their yea or nay opinion.
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Thank you very much Patricia for your response!!!, I take this plant from Germany, a suckering from a plant I find there, it resist coming to Patagonia!!!, I will take photos of the leaf (infrastipular), and add to the post, for the moment we can give it a study name "Raff Majalis"???, it's a rose that I want to have for many years, and specially R.majalis plena, or R. cinnamomea plena, but it's very difficult to get it, there are very few nurseries that offer this variety, and the most of are in Europe
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It is very similar to R. cinnamomea 'Plena' from the photographs, I have R. cinnamomea 'Plena' if you would like some.
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Thank you for your comment, Andrew!!!, and Thank you again for your kindly offering, I will let you know if I or a friend travel to UK, so you can give me/or to a friend a little suckering of R. cinnamomea plena, and I will be so happy to take it to my garden in Patagonia!!!
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I add photos of the leaves and flowers (close up)
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Andrew, there is
R. cinnamomea plena. Syn. Double Cinnamon. and
R. cinnamomea. Syn. Single Cinnamon Rose.
Rafael's rose is single.
Rafael, I might have mislead you a little with my words "infrastipular (just under the leaf) prickles". They are just under the leaf, but are placed on the stem. This type of prickle is most clearly shown in the illustration that Cass has added of R. Cinnamomea (photo no. 78512) from John Lindley's Rosarum Monographia (1820), Tab 5 after p. 28.
I have opened a file for "Raff Majalis". Will you be able to move your photos to that file?
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Hi Patricia, I just take a new photo of the "under the leaf", but on the stem where are placed two prickles, just a moment and I add this photo
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i will respond further in "Raff Majalis".
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Thank you Patricia, I add 14 photos to "Raff Majalis", and please let me know if this is the authentic Rosa majalis or R. cinnamomea
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I have a problem with my account: when I enter to my account and search the photos ( I put in the different issues: varieties of roses, Q & A FORUM, and study roses with study names), the answer is that didn't find nothing of that. At the same time if I enter by the name of some variety of rose, for example Isabelle Nabonnand, where I put photos from my garden, and I put my name, and the name of my garden: RAM, and enter here by my name, it open all the list of roses I grow, photos of my garden, etc. I want to correct this problem, it's difficult to me to understand what is happening, tell me what I can do to correct this problem: and the possibility of access to all the issues of the account. I want to add another e mail to my account, that is more up-to-date: rafaelmaino@gmail.com , Thank you HMF
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It is probably because you have once opened two accounts. There are no photos in your ramtoth account. But there are photos in your rafaelmaino account.
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Would you like us to combine your accounts ?
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Yes, I like to combine my accounts, thank you!!
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We have combined your accounts.
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Gorgeous, Rafael--absolutely beautiful. I love that you included most of the plant, and blossoms in many stages of development.
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Thank You!!!, I will post more photos of the plant, now it is full of buds, it will open next days!!!
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Initial post
4 JUN 14
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* This post deleted by user *
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Reply
#1 of 22 posted
4 JUN 14 by
 Jay-Jay
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Could this be Crépuscule?
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¿or Safrano?, I think the plant it's not so vigorous and climber as Crépuscule,(and this plant it's probably more than 40 years old), and not so floriferous, and the colour it's not so intense yellow-apricot. I post now a photo of the plant, that is more or less 190 cm hight.
Thank you for your prompt interest Jay-Jay
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Reply
#5 of 22 posted
5 JUN 14 by
Jay-Jay
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As for the plant and this colour of the flowers: not Crépuscule.
Leaves and new twigs put me on the wrong leg.
I'm not acquainted with Saffrano. Most Teas don't survive our climate/winters.
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Thank you Jay-Jay for your interest
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My first reaction was Safrano, although it's not usually that pink in my garden. Your first group of photos has been deleted. If you add them again, perhaps Billy Teabag or Rockhill would comment. I'm not an expert.
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I don't know what happened with the photos and the first post ¿?. I post again: found rose in Bariloche, Patagonia, Argentina,Tea or HT, height 190cm x width 120cm, leaves brilliant green, purplish new grown. Flowers medium to large, cupped, mild tea fragrance, yellow- apricot, soft pink shading, bloom in flushes throughout the season.
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Lovely rose! Does it have prickles?
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Hi Billy, it's a beautiful rose, indeed. It have few prickles on old canes. I have no photos of the canes, I will try to get some. The plant grows in a particular garden of an elegant and historical house, near of my house here in Bariloche, the owners are not at this time of the year, I'll try with the housekeeper, I think will be no problem. The season is good for this, very rainy and cold end of autumn, although the rose does not lose the leaves, any way I guess I can better observe the canes.
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Sounds like it's a splendid winter rose!
I asked about the prickles because your photos remind me of 'G. Nabonnand' which is usually thornless (except for sharp little prickles on the backs of the leaves).
Do you have any correctly named 'G. Nabonnand' plants to compare it with? 'G. Nabonnand' is often sold under the wrong name - Jean Ducher.
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Hello Billy, I am a friend of Rafael.
Do you have any idea of when began this confusion with G. Nabonnand and Jean Ducher?
Do you think the pictures of both are corectly named? Because there is no "as in commerce" file of G. Nabonnand...
Could you describe the differences between them? They seem so alike I undertand a possible confusion.
Thank you,
Carolina Gutovnik
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Hi Carolina
To the best of my knowledge, the original 'Jean Ducher' is not in commerce and is possibly extinct, even though you can still see roses labelled 'Jean Ducher' in many nurseries and gardens, books and websites. (This rose is invariably 'G. Nabonnand'.)
If you look at the 'Jean Ducher' entry here on HMF, the only photos of the original 'Jean Ducher' are the black and white photo from Gardening Illustrated 1893 posted by CybeRose and the portrait from The Garden 1879 that I just added. All the recent photos there are of 'G. Nabonnand'.
I believe Nancy Steen was the first person to put the name 'Jean Ducher' on 'G. Nabonannd' when she found it, un-named in a Remuera (Auckland, New Zealand) garden, and from there it was sent to England under the name 'Jean Ducher'.
After it got to England, it was distributed all around the world, first by L. Arthur Wyatt, from his 'Lost and Found" Nursery, and then by Peter Beales Roses and others. It was sent to Sangerhausen from England at this time too (1960s/ 1970s).
The two roses have many significant differences.
You can see from the 1879 portrait that the original 'Jean Ducher' was a very prickly rose, whereas 'G. Nabonnand' is virtually thornless, apart from the prickles under the leaves.
'Jean Ducher' was a full, globular rose with many petals. 'G. Nabonnand' is generally much less full - although it does occasionally double and treble its petals.
'Jean Ducher' was a good dry weather rose but wasn't great in wet weather - the blooms balled and spoiled - while 'G, Nabonnand' is reasonably unfazed by cold, wet weather. It's one of the great winter roses in warmer parts of the world, producing some of its most exquisite blooms in the coldest months.
The easiest way to decide which rose you have is to check for prickles. If prickles are very rare on the stems, it's definitely not the real 'Jean Ducher'.
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That is a wonderfully clear posting Billy.
Have you ever seen hips similar to Rafael's with the elongated base on G. Nabonnand?
Mine were all round. But I suspect that 'G. Nabonnand' could produce elongated hips, because I have seen both round and elongated on 'Safrano'. I've added photos of hips to both roses.
Raphael and Carolina - your rose seems to have the colour of 'G. Nabonnand' and not 'Safrano'.
It has prickles (as does 'Safrano' which has a few); whereas 'G. Nabonand' is almost thornless.
I would photograph the prickles.
Regards, Patricia
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Spherical hips like the ones you posted are more typical of the mature hips on my plant Patricia, but they are a bit more variable when unripe.
The rose in Rafael's photos seems to have a smooth pedicel - another reason to eliminate 'Safrano', which has a glandular pedicel.
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Hi Billy, I could take new photos of the canes, and hips (not mature yet). As you can see, there are some prickles in some canes, and in others not. I post a photo of the leaves (back), it have little red shark prickles.
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I wonder if your rose could be 'Reve d'Or'. That has a few prickles, for me, mostly on the old wood and it has a smooth pedicel. However your foundling seems to have fewer petals and the height of 190cm seems much lower than 'Reve d'Or' is said to be. (Has it been pruned lower?) The only thing that I am unable to confirm is that lovely pink colour of the foundling's canes. Can anybody else comment on the cane colour of 'Reve d'Or'? I'll add some photos to 'Reve d'Or'.
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Hello Patricia, I add some photos of 'Reve D'Or' that I take last spring in Venado Tuerto, Buenos Aires province, Argentina, (I don't have this rose), and as I could see it's a huge climbing rose, that it is not the case of the rose I found here, (it grows no more than 2m, and it's an old plant, and as the housekeeper told me, not or little pruned). I give to this rose study name "La Torre"
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Yes! Thanks for these photos Raphael.
Looks like we can eliminate 'G. Nabonnand' from the list of possibilities.
Does this rose have a study name?
Would it be possible to make an entry for this rose on HMF so that more photos can be added over the seasons? If someone is able to positively identify it as 'Reve d'Or', or some other rose, the entry can be merged, but any details and history of this particular rose will still be recorded there.
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Study name "La Torre"
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Superb name. Superb photo.
We'll make a special file for this foundling and will transfer your photos.
If you have any other foundlings in the future (we know you will have), perhaps it might be better to open a file first - just email us. Unfortunately we are unable to transfer these comments and they will submerge in the bottomless pit of 'What is This', we are afraid.
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Thank you Patricia!!, as you can notice, the place where the rose grow it's one of the most beautiful places here at Bariloche, it's an historic house, the pity is that recently a several old roses growing there where removed and replaced by Iceberg and La Sevillana!!!, (garden-designers ooooops!)
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Reply
#22 of 22 posted
16 JUN 14 by
Jay-Jay
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You might cut and paste this thread as the first reference for this rose and name HMF as the source.
Success!
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Thank you all of you!
It is wonderfull how much I can learn from you and this page! We will be adding new pictures as the season goes on. I agree judging by the pictures that this rose is not a strong climber like 'Reve d'Or'...
This rose was found by Rafael, he was kind enough to show it to me this autumn and just helped him with the cuttings.
Kind regards, Carolina
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