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Does anyone know this rose I found abandoned in an old farm in Bariloche, Patagonia, Argentina, bloom only once, spring-summer, look like Alba, or Gallica, or Damask??, 6-7 cm.diameter, fragrant, and totally healthy, she grows and flower at the worst conditions. Now she grows in my garden and she look so happy!!
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#1 of 7 posted
8 MAY 12 by
Grntrz5
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Rafael, does this rose re-bloom? From your pictures it looks thornless at the top and very thorny on the lower canes. Your rose looks very similar to Therese Bugnet. That rose has fall color, does your's change in cooler weather?
I had just visited someone else's garden and saw a "Therese Bugnet" that stood just over 5 feet, you might have better growing conditions than we have, but take a look at some other pictures of "Therese Bugnet" here at HMF, or online. Those red-brown canes and that lilac-pink color of the blooms looks so similar. Hope you can figure out your unknown rose.
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It flowers only once, mid summer, and it is very different to T. Bugnet, that I have it, it have not rugosa leaves, it look more like an Alba, so the prickles and the way that grows the canes
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Hola Rafael,
Gallica, espinas muy grandes y el follaje no me parece.
Alba: el crecimiento generalmente es erguido y el follaje tiene tonalidad grisacea.
Pero de todos modos es una muy linda rosa.
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Hola Cristina, el crecimiento es erguido, en forma de mata, con ramas curvas, que llegan hasta 2m, los aculeos son parecidos a los de la alba 'Céleste', también sus hojas, de un verde grisaceo,(no tanto como 'Céleste') opaco, generalmente de 7 folíolos, en la fotos se ven más verdes (y algo cubiertos por las cenizas del volcán), voy a tratar de poner más fotos.
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¡Es una bella y muy noble rosa, resiste el abandono de años, muy vigorosa, y no la ataca ninguna enfermedad, y en el otoño sus hojas se vuelven amarillas antes de caer, eso también la asemeja a las Alba, y de un delicado perfume!!
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Photos reassigned to "Gelainia" as requested.
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what rose is this, it grows like gallica,or centifolia, flowers double, only once mid summer, strong fragrance, 250 x250 cm, suckers all around.Prickles like gallica. Found in an old farm in Bariloche, Patagonia, Argentina
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All photos reassigned into "Contessa Gambarota" as requested.
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Hi Patricia, I add some new photos of "Contessa Gambarota" to the file
Thank you for your help!
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Hi everyone,
Found rose, probably Hybrid Perpetual, someone may suggest some identity of this beauty??
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Hello Rafael,
Two good identification characteristics are in your photos. A long sloping receptacle, and thorns.
The “Bariloche” rose has a similar long sloping receptacle of ‘Paul Neyron’, but I am discounting that because “Bariloche” has thorns and ‘Paul Neyron’ is almost thornless.
Consider ‘La Reine’. Something about the bloom bud/form is reminding me on the old illustrations of ‘La Reine’. Have a look at Jedmar’s 1848 illustration of ‘La Reine’.
And consider ‘Mrs. John Laing’, which I don’t have, so am unable to help further here, but the colour may be similar.
You should give your foundlings temporary “study names”. I note you also submitted photos of a different rose on June 18, 2012 , and referred to that rose as - found in Bariloche.
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Hello Patricia,
Thank you for your prompt response, I was looking 'La Reine', 'Paul Neyron' and 'Mrs John Laing', and I think that the more similar to my foundling (as you suggest I will name it "Bariloche Namuncura" -Namuncura is the name of the street where I found this rose, together with my friend Carolina, another fanatic rustler), as I said, the more similar is 'La Reine'. May be Paul Neyron too, but as you can see in the photos I post of "B. Namuncura", the leaves are more long and pointed, more clear green, and drop down in V shape.
I get 'Paul Neyron' this year, not even flourished, so I can't compare it, but although the plant is too young, I can see that the leaves of PN are more round an dark green. The thing is that PN is a rose that you can find in Argentina's nurseries, but I myself have never heard about La Reine in the country, so it would really be a real find!!
I think that "Bariloche Namuncura" look very similar to your W. Australian foundling "Kelvin Road", and the Jedmar's 1848 illustration of 'La Reine´.
I will continue my remarks comparing my PN with "B.Namuncura", so in the near future will clarify the dilema.
And Patricia, thank you for your attention to my question of June 18, 2012, in reference to this rose, it is still a mystery.
I stayed past year at the meeting in Sangerhausen of the WFRS Heritage Roses, and I brought my concerns about this Rose ( that temporarily I put the study and funny name of "Contessa Gambarota", don't laugh, the mythological Contessa Gambarota was the antique owner of the farm where I found the rose). Obviously this rose is a centifolia, but what centifolia, nobody knows.... I didn't saw her in the Rosarium, the more similar I saw was 'René D'Anjou', but this is moss, not as well my "Contessa".....by the way, as the "Contessa" is a tremendous vigorous rose that suckers (like centifolias do...) all around, you can find it in every poor house here in Bariloche, and quite despised in, I can say, "bourgeois gardens" here...and I think it is a very lovely and fine rose, with a strong spicy antique fragrance.
Best regards,
Rafael
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Hello Rafael,
I have taken the liberty of opening a special file for "Bariloche Namuncura" and transferring your photos to that file. Now you can add photos and comments to the file direct. If you note any other distinguishing characteristics, do a comment and we will add them to the main page for the rose.
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It would be good to have a file on "Contessa Gambarota" too. Why mythological, Rafael? Did the lady invent the title for herself?
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Thank you Patricia and Margaret for your attention!!, tell me in what issue of HMF I can enter to look the files of "Namuncura" and "Contessa Gambarota".
About the mythological Contessa, nobody knows exactly if the lady invent the title, or was the people that knew her who gave to her the "Contessa" title, due to her strong and imposing personality. It is true that her surname was Gambarota, that mean in Italian "broken leg"; Ch. Q. Ritson say to me about it: ¡what an ugly name!!, I explain to him that it is very common in italian names (including the noble), ironic or pejoratives words. Fortunately I had one more worthy.....
Best regards,
Rafael
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You search for it just like any other rose. Go into Search / Lookup and ask for "Bariloche Namuncura".
Would you like us to open a file for "Contessa Gambarota"? If so, which rose do you call "Contessa Gambarota" please? The one in your comment of December 22, 2011? - or the rose in your June 18, 2012 comment?
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Thank you, Patricia. The rose I call "Contessa Gambarota" is the one I post in june18, 2012. Te other one I post in my comment of December 22, 2011, is another mystery rose that I found near my house here at Península San Pedro, Bariloche, in a farm of a pioneer family of Swiss origin, whose name is Gelain, so, I put this name to the rose "Gelainia". About this rose I brought my concerns to Sangerhausen too, but no answer came to me to classify it. Thomas Havel, (Director of Sangerhausen Rosarium) who saw the photos told me that it seem Rosa l'heritierana, I look in HMF for this rose, and certainly have similar shape in general the plant, and may be the flower, but R. l'heritierana is more red, "Gelainia" is soft pink.
If you like to open a file for "Contessa Gambarota" and "Gelainia", I would be very grateful!
Another matter: I said in the first post that the rose HP "Bariloche Namuncura" was found by me and my friend Carolina, the fact is that the rose was found by Carolina, and she take me to see the rose, because she is a really enthusiastic beginner, that have an acute and perceptive eye to found special roses, and I was somewhat clumsy and careless in my comment, so I want to correct this error: the merit for find the rose was of Carolina Gutovnick .
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I think I have added everything Rafael. Now if you need to add anything more, a comment in the individual files will be better. Well done for searching out and preserving these old roses.
Regards,
Patricia
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May be Francis Dubreuil?, first flower, young plant, unidentified Tea
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The leaves seem more elongated than the 'Francis Dubreuil' in commerce.
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Hello Patricia, thank you for your prompt response, I never saw F. Dubreuil, I don´t know nobody here in Argentina that have it, this plant I buy in a nursery in the Buenos Aires prov., unidentified, the plant is very young, I get it this winter, and it´s obviously a Tea, surprisingly it flower double dark velvet red (very little flower, but it is the first...), the most close I find it´s F.D., ¿?, do you suggest another possibility?, thank you again, best regards!!
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I was thinking of the original 'Francis Dubreuil'. Have a look at Jedmar's Rosenzeitung 1896 picture which seems to have long leaves (if they belong to the pictured 'Francis Dubreuil'). As well see CybeRose's Gardening Illustrated 1906 black and white picture. Both pictures seem to show a scrolling bud.
I can't help any further with teas unfortunately - they do not grow well where I live. But there are other members who may be able to help you. In the meantime, take side-on photos of any hip, the pedicel and a leaf placed on your hand (for scale).
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It would be wonderful if you have found the original (true) Francis Dubreuil. I'm told there weren't many dark red Teas. It might be worth comparing yours with Princesse de Sagan.
Best wishes for 2014,
Margaret
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Hello Margaret, thank you for your response, I shall keep under observation my rose, it is very young and the flower in the photo is the first she give, I compare with Princesse de Sagan (photos HMF) and my rose is very much dark and velvety red, and more double and of different shape I think ( and it´s the first one), and no fragrance. That make me think that could be the original F.D., according to the old descriptions that say that original F.D. have little or nothing of perfume. And in reference to the leaves, the original have long pointed leaves, so have mine, of bluish-gray green, as you can see in the photos. Sorry, I am very exited thinking my be I have found this controversial rose.... I must hope for the more development in the season, and continuous observing. I will post the novelty of growing, so we will see...
Best wishes for 2014 Margaret!!
Rafael
PD: I put the photos in FB for Di Durston, and she think it is Francis Dubreuil...¿my be??, quizá, quizá, quizá.....
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