HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Simon Voorwinde
most recent 21 DEC 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 JAN 16 by Simon Voorwinde
Certainlhy not thornless... lots of small prickles like many early polyantha. Botanica's Roses state that this rose is not a strong grower, however, I am always amazed at how tough and clean it is. It is also makes outstanding seedlings! I really should look after mine more and give it the TLC it deserves!
Reply #1 of 6 posted 8 JAN 16 by Patricia Routley
Lots of small prickles? From my photos I would agree with the only reference (1923) which said "almost thornless". But I'll have a look at my bushes tomorrow morning. I love this rose, but unfortunately the weevils love it too. I have taken to feeding the guinea fowl their wheat where the weevils were most active, and this has proved effective.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 10 JAN 16 by Patricia Routley
Hello Simon,
I looked at one of my bushes the other morning and the main cane was completely thornless. Other smaller canes had prickles as in my photo 'Alice Amos' 558 003. I'll try to check out my second bush in the next couple of days.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 12 JAN 16 by Simon Voorwinde
Are your plants from mine? This is the kind of armory mine is sporting. Some not-so-small prickles are produced with painful frequency. Photo taken today (12th Jan. 2016)
Reply #4 of 6 posted 12 JAN 16 by Patricia Routley
I had a look at my second plant yesterday and it is sporting that same fuzz of little prickles at the top of a cane. So, typical polyantha canes.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 20 DEC 18 by Plazbo
Hello Patricia
Does this have any of the foetida sweet glandular smell on it's buds?
Reply #6 of 6 posted 21 DEC 18 by Patricia Routley
I had a look at my plant this morning. No buds at all, just the last odd petals about to drop. ‘Alice Amos’ is not a tall plant for this creaky, nasally-challenged gardener. Perhaps others can help here.
most recent 4 SEP 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 17 NOV 10 by Patricia Routley
Comment under Miniature Roses from Jenny H. :
I would like to purchase a plant or cutting of the miniature Stella Elizabeth. I live in Australia but would consider importing a cutting. Can anybody help? It seems a shame to lose this plant altogether (as there are no listed sellers or in Australia or the US that I can find), especially as it has a fragrance.

Dear Jenny,
I know that David Clark (sorry, don't know his address) and Jane Zammit who had the nursery Roses Etcetera at Canowindra, NSW, once both had 'Stella Elisabeth'. The Heritage Rose Society in NSW will be able to give you their addresses. Ring Glennis Clark 02 9874 3118 or Kathie Mills in Orange 02 6362 1354 for starters.
Reply #1 of 14 posted 3 JUL 11 by Simon Voorwinde
The Rose Paradise had it listed in 2006 (see:
Reply #2 of 14 posted 28 AUG 11 by Jenny H
Thank you so much for your help in trying to track down Stella Elizabeth. After I loaded my question I apologise for not coming back to the site to check if there was any response but I gave up soon after. I have tried very hard to get it including interstate but most of the Rose Growers seem to have retired and miniatures are no longer fashionable. The term "bulldozed stock" is now familiar but I have recharged and now I am back on the case! I will try to make contact now with individual miniature collectors through the NSW Rose Society and the names you suggested are good starting points. I feel this is a rose worth the effort of the chase. In bud it does not look unlike a Cecile Brunner. It had a tea fragrance, dark green foliage and the bud/flower lasted easily a week in a vase. If I am able to locate a plant I am hoping to show it to some market gardeners which I think is its best chance of longevity. So thanks again and if I find it I will post a triumphant note. Cheers
Reply #3 of 14 posted 21 SEP 11 by Patricia Routley
Hi Jenny, I mentioned 'Stella Elizabeth' to a friend in the National Rose Society of Australia, but he hadn't heard of it since Rumsey's closed their nursery. That was my last hope. How is your search doing?
Reply #4 of 14 posted 28 MAR 13 by Jenny H
Hi Patricia

Despite a long search throughout Australia I have had no luck finding my favourite minature rose
I thought I would post it again. It is definitely in some Aussie gardens, but appears not to be sold commercially any more which is a pity as it had a powerful tea rose perfume and the flower remained fresh for a week in a vase. It was last sold commercially in 2010 in Perth before meeting an ignominious end by being bulldozed in by the grower as roses had lost popularity.I missed it by about three months. I hope this comment will reignite interest in this rose. If one can be located I have found a commercial flower grower who is interested in mass producing it due to its longevity and perfume, so there is hope as long as a plant or cutting can be located I include again for members interest the description and history. Thank you very much for the help you have given and if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated

. Also referenced as: Stella Elizabeth
4 favorite votes.
Pink, near white or white blend Miniature.
Registration name: Stella Elisabeth
Bred by Ralph S. Moore (United States, 1983).
Introduced in Australia by Roy H. Rumsey Pty. Ltd. in 1983 as 'Stella Elisabeth'.
White, pink edges. Mild fragrance. 35 petals. Small bloom form. Blooms in flushes throughout the season.
Bushy. Small, semi-glossy, medium green foliage.
Height of 20" (50 cm).
USDA zone 6b through 9b (default).
Seedling × Seedling
Named after a grand-daughter of the Australian introducer.
Reply #5 of 14 posted 29 MAR 13 by Simon Voorwinde
If it was sold up until 2010 by the grower in Perth, might they have sales records of who they sold it to prior to that? This might be the most successful route to finding a plant.
Reply #6 of 14 posted 2 JUN 18 by Glennis Clark
Hi Patricia,
This is said to be in a garden in Epping, a neighbouring suburb to me, so I am going to try and contact the lady and see if I can visit. I will take your description and if possible take cuttings as well as photograph.
The photo sent to me does not sound like your description but the lady said that the rose was given to her by David Rumsey for their 40th wedding anniversary - she is referring to it as Stella Marie?
Will keep you up to date.
Reply #7 of 14 posted 2 JUN 18 by Patricia Routley
I have a funny feeling that you might have found it

Stephanie Murphy wrote in a 1995 Heritage roses In Australia journal:
.......[Roy Rumsey's] son David and his much loved grand daughters Stella and Marie
Reply #8 of 14 posted 2 JUN 18 by Glennis Clark
I have emailed the lady in Epping and at this stage I do not have her address or phone number. The contact was given to me by our member David Clark who as it happens lives close to the "Stella" and David Clark had been talking to David Rumsey's first wife who lives in Tasmania - she had been visiting the lady in Epping. The granddaughter Stella no longer has the rose so if it is the right one hopefully we can propagate one for her as well as one for The Rumsey Garden at Parramatta - technically not heritage but there is a connection and a story.
All very convoluted but we may get there and at this stage David Clark, friend of David Rumsey's, should get the credit for finding the rose - that is if it is the one!
Reply #9 of 14 posted 2 JUN 18 by Patricia Routley
I have been reading material by, and about, Roy and Heather Rumsey for years now, and in my opinion, anything to do with them is heritage.
I am sure that American members might agree that any rose of Ralph Moore's might be of heritage value too. Even if you don't find it Glennis, you and David deserve a HRiA Sherlock Holmes award.
Reply #10 of 14 posted 2 JUN 18 by Jenny H
I am still interested in obtaining a cutting of this rose if possible. I remember it well, it used to have glossy dark green leaves and was a perfect as a bud in a vase. It lasted about 7 days and had a tea rose perfume. Fingers crossed that someone can get it going.
Reply #11 of 14 posted 3 JUN 18 by Patricia Routley
Jane Zammit (dec'd) who once had Roses Etc. Nursery at Lot 1, Bangaroo Quarry Road, Canowindra, NSW, mentioned to me on July 12, 2006 that she had 'Stella Elizabeth'. She added: " I now have some. Am not into mini's per se, but a symbolic one or two to honour our mentors & their memory sits well with me." so I think she would have looked after it for as long as she was alive.
Later edit. I have found a couple of photos and added them.
Reply #12 of 14 posted 3 JUN 18 by Glennis Clark
I have heard from David Clark who is in correspondence with the Christa who is the mother of the granddaughters Stella Elizabeth and Marie Christina with Christa's permission via David Clark I can happily add Christa's comment::
"The rose is definitely called Stella Elizabeth and not Stella Marie. Noelle must have got confused with the name as she knows both the girls. And the rose Noelle has is definitely Stella Elizabeth. The photos I sent you are also definitely that rose as I took them myself"
Reply #13 of 14 posted 9 JUN 18 by Glennis Clark
I have, on the 8th June 2018, been to see the lady in Epping, Noelle, who has the Stella Elizabeth rose. I was able to photograph the rose bush and take some cuttings. It is a bit of a long shot trying to get cuttings to take at this time of the year but there was a flower on the plant so they are in a pot and labelled and we will have to see what happens. Noelle has asked me to keep in touch as she is very keen that her plant be propagated and we can take some more cuttings later in the year in need. The photos taken on 8th June have been uploaded onto HMF.
It will be wonderful if we can have the two "Granddaughter" roses planted side by side in The Rumsey Rose Garden at Parramatta and we would also like to be able to gift plants back to the Rumsey family. Jenny H I think you started this quest so we would like to keep a plant for you that is if and when we are successful with striking cuttings.
Reply #14 of 14 posted 4 SEP 18 by Jenny H
Glenn is, Pamela and all
I am humbled and would be a most grateful recipient
Best of luck!
most recent 20 JUL 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 6 OCT 11 by Simon Voorwinde
AKA 'UHLrutida' (SOURCE:
Reply #1 of 3 posted 9 OCT 11 by jedmar
Thank you, this makes it also a rose by Uhl.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 9 OCT 11 by Simon Voorwinde
Jedmar, what do you know about Uhl? This is not a breeder I am familiar with. I love the look of his hybrid rugosa seedlings.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 20 JUL 18 by Michael Garhart
The codename seems to imply there is also Rosa nitida, an American dwarf, in it.
most recent 19 JUL 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 9 JUL 11 by Simon Voorwinde
How does one think a 'Climbing Devoniensis' might go growing as a large shrub?
Reply #1 of 7 posted 18 JUL 18 by HubertG
Although this is a really old post, I'd like to know this too. My bush Devoniensis barely grew and died, but I loved it and would consider the climber. Also has anyone had experience of propagating from the flowered shoots of the climber, as mentioned in the 1865 reference, in respect to it reverting to the bush form?
Reply #2 of 7 posted 18 JUL 18 by Margaret Furness
Yes. Cl Lady Hillingdon is another one that is reluctant to climb when grown from cuttings.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 18 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
First, check out the prickles in my photo, and the comments in Billy's photos.
Reply #4 of 7 posted 19 JUL 18 by HubertG
Hmm, I might try the bush again and just push it along.
Incidentally, if cuttings were taken from flowering stems of Cl Devoniensis and reverted to the bush, would they likely be repeating like the bush, or just spring flowering like the climber?
Reply #5 of 7 posted 19 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
Sorry, I don't know. But you might like to read the 2013 comments for 'Climbing Devoniensis'. I am sure my climber flowers more than just spring only, but at the moment can't justify that statement.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 19 JUL 18 by Margaret Furness
I posted in April a photo of Patricia's Cl Devoniensis flowering cheerfully, but that's misleading - I would have been there in wildflower season. Will keep trying to find the original..
Reply #7 of 7 posted 19 JUL 18 by HubertG
The 1922 Hazlewood reference says "Almost too vigorous in growth" . I'll stick with the bush form. The fragrance was wonderful when I did grow it.
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