HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Lyn G
most recent 1 DEC SHOW ALL
Initial post 28 MAR 07 by Ed Rutkowski
After viewing your website, I think it would be an advantage to cross-reference the roses by class/color/blooming seasons. For example; hybrid teas color pink only; or a category for once blooming or conitnious blooms.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 28 MAR 07 by HMF Admin
See the Advanced search - I'll think it's just what you had in mind.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 28 MAR 07 by Lyn G
You can use the tools on the site to create just this kind of cross-referencing. Use the Advanced Search feature. There are plenty of "Help" messages throughout the site and you can find step-by-step examples on how to use the Advanced Search by searching the archived posts from the Q & A Forum. Just click the "Search Posts" tab and enter "Advanced Search" in the search field. Make certain that the "Match Phrase Exactly" radio button is clicked and you will find several posts on this topic.

HelpMeFind is enhanced regularly and volunteers still are going back to fill in data fields on an on-going basis. This work always improves the results of the Advanced Search.

Reply #3 of 3 posted 1 DEC by Dewberry
How can I help improve the advanced search feature? How can I copy the information into the database or whatever?
most recent 29 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 20 FEB 14 by Michael Garhart
I wish there were articles or documentation about how the Southern European countries began striped roses. It is obvious that they began before roses like Scentimental hit the market, so it makes me wonder if there is a story to tell.
Reply #1 of 12 posted 2 APR 18 by mtspace
Ferdinand Pichard has bee around for a long time. It lurks in the ancestry of Oranges 'n' Lemons as it does in the ancestry of Scentimental.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 2 APR 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Do you think they could ultimately all descend from Rosa gallica 'Versicolor'? Are there any striped roses without any gallica blood in them at all?
Reply #3 of 12 posted 3 APR 18 by Lyn G
Andrew ...

You may be interested in this article written by Ralph Moore:
Reply #4 of 12 posted 3 APR 18 by Michael Garhart
Yes, some teas are striped.

FP is related to other H.Perpetuals. They share an odd type of feathery, pointed foliage, which is kind of interesting.

I am not completely convinced virus is the only source. Maybe it's just a simple mutation. I think most of my frustration is that there is no lineage bridges from of the original modern roses (gallics, for example) to the early 1900s.
Reply #5 of 12 posted 3 APR 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you Lyn that was really informative.
Michael are the stripy Teas pure Teas? The foliage of 'Ferdinand Pichard' is also a pale colour too similar to certain others. The gaps in the family trees are as annoying as with "blue" roses too.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 20 FEB 19 by Michael Garhart
It's not possible to know. Many lines ends in information between 1800 and 1850.

I am guessing that striping is a form of incomplete inheritance in some lines of roses. I am also guessing that bicolors further disambiguate the incompletion.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 20 FEB 19 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Ralph Moore introduced modern striped genetics via, 'Ferdinard Pichard'.

I was around and knew him at the time. All modern striped roses descend from his work.

They created quite a stir and they still do.
Reply #8 of 12 posted 20 FEB 19 by Andrew from Dolton
I REALLY like 'Stars 'n' Stripes' and would just love to know the parentage of 'Ferdinand Pichard'.
Reply #9 of 12 posted 21 FEB 19 by Michael Garhart
That line is from:

They have foliage unlike most HPs of the time, with slight serration and more linear leaflets. Sometimes with undulating disfigurement to the whole leaflet.

Vebert spanned 50some years, it spans many types of roses, and a lot of the work doesn't have a lineage. He used a lot of moss and centifolia, which makes me wonder if a mutation from those was not the source. Specifically centifolia x gallica backgrounds, which are prone to mutations of all sorts. Including color breaking. It is perhaps he found a mutation that was not genetically superficial and kept the stripe from it, which happened to be a simple single.
Reply #10 of 12 posted 28 OCT by Rupert, Kim L.
Mr. Moore chose Ferdinand Pichard precisely because it was the only striped rose he could find for which there was no stated parentage, and wasn't a sport. Therefore, it held the greatest opportunity for him to mine stripes from it. It took a long time, but he did it and, as Robert stated, modern stripes all come from those original Little Darling X Ferdinand Pichard seedlings.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 29 OCT by Michael Garhart
I originally made this thread because I had wondered what the exact source of stripes that landed in Europe was. For example, in New Zealand, McGredy began with Stars n Stripes. It took him quite some time to breed the lankiness out of them, although his most popular from that venture, Oranges and Lemons, still suffered from lankiness. Essentially, I had wondered which derivative ignited the same in Europe, and which company landed the derivative first. It does seem Delbard had among the earliest access of those in Europe. I recall they even had a striped russet.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 29 OCT by Rupert, Kim L.
Mr. Moore loved telling the story that McGredy asked him for Pinstripe, his best stripe to that point as it is a bushy, dwarf plant without the ranginess of the earlier types, but Mr. Moore wasn't finished exploring it. He did give McGredy Stars'n Stripes and suggested he raise selfs from it to fix the dwarf, bushy plant habit. McGredy obviously didn't take his advice for some time as every stripe he raised from it ran rangy.
most recent 8 SEP SHOW ALL
Initial post 31 AUG 12 by Horst Peters
sport of ´Mariatheresia´
Reply #1 of 8 posted 1 SEP 12 by Lyn G
Thank you for the information, but do you have a reference we can use to document the lineage ?

Reply #2 of 8 posted 3 SEP 12 by Horst Peters
Hello Liz,
I am a licensee of Rosen Tantau, every year I go to the field of this company in search of new varieties. Likewise, in 2007. Before the variety "Baroness" was the info:
"Baronesse (Mariatheresia - Sport)" - See pictures
2012, I had this variety in a pot. And I found a pale pink flowers on the pink ´Baronesse´:
See pictures.
A Sport? No, it's the mother plant: ´Mariatheresia´.

Other references I have not.
Perhaps it is sufficient?

Sincerely yours
Reply #3 of 8 posted 3 SEP 12 by Lyn G
Hi Hortz...

Yes, this is information ! Thank you for getting back to me.

On HMF we treat sports as separate plants and give them their own rose page with their own rose name.

Have you named your sport ? Will it be introduced into commerce after it has been tested by Tantau ?

What I think is best to do is to give your rose a unique name, set up the rose page and list you as the "discover, of the rose. We can listed it as "Pending Introduction", if it is not already in commerce.

You can send me a PM with as much information about the plant characteristics as possible
and we can move any photos to the new rose page as the sport is different from the Evers rose. If, after testing, the rose is introduced, we can up date the new rose page with that information. This time we can also list the lineage. Thank you ..... I just happen to be a lineage nut.

Please let me know how you wish to proceed.

Reply #4 of 8 posted 3 SEP 12 by Horst Peters
Hi Liz,

(my name is "Horst", not "Hortz" - smile!)

'Baroness' is a sport of 'Mariatheresa'! Tantau has the licenses of these roses. The names are from Tantau. I just wanted to show, 'Baroness' is a sport of 'Maria Theresa'. (How 'Winchester Cathedral' of 'Mary Rose' or 'Burgundy Ice' from 'Iceberg' (= 'Schneewittchen', Kordes 1958) ...)
(In my case is 'Baroness' fallen back into the mother plant ... that's all!. But a good proof of "parentage" ...)


Reply #5 of 8 posted 14 OCT 12 by Marina's Garden. Crawfordville, FL
Dear Horst,
Did you ever have a chance to see striped blooms on your Baronesse?
Mine almost always have stripes. Unfortunately, I don't have many pictures of this rose, just posted one today and you could see white stripes.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 24 OCT 12 by Horst Peters
Dear Amelia,

Sorry for the delay, we are now just back from a trip abroad.
Striped flowers I had not at that sort. But another member told me about it too. Your photo shows it well.
In my experience these sports often show this "back to the mother." "Winchester Cathedreal" - "Mary Rose", "Burgundy Ice" - "Iceberg" ("Schneewitchen") and many others.
If you still can make more photos available at HMF, it would be good. Make those photos more clearly the origin of the variety.

Reply #7 of 8 posted 6 FEB 13 by csb

I have 3 plants of Baronesse buy directly from Tantau and all 3 have the white stripes.

Reply #8 of 8 posted 8 SEP by jedmar
One proof that 'Baronesse' is a sport of 'Mariatheresia' is that its code according to Tantau's Trademark listing is Tan97094 EdV. Tan97094 is 'Mariatheresia'. The EdV ending is found several times with other sports commercialized by Tantau, too. I suppose it is a kind of provisional breeder code until they are certain that the sport is stable.
most recent 2 SEP HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 SEP by CybeRose
It would be helpful to change the name to Le Grice, as it is in the breeder list.
Also, there is a 1976 edition.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 SEP by Lyn G
Done ... thank you for the heads-up
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