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Cass
most recent 1 JUL 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 21 MAR 08 by colothomas
Am I missing something? every picture I have seen of this rose is a pink or red. Why is the description say it is white or nearly white? Its heritage suggests that it should be a red.
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 22 MAR 08 by Cass
The white color description was an error. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 1 JUL 22 by Patricia Routley
The error is still being perpetuated it seems. See the 2017 reference.
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 1 JUL 22 by Johno
The confusion is no doubt due to the other Sacred Heart, MEIpierar. I suspect the Ross Roses ref was to this rose as they were once Meilland's agents.
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 1 JUL 22 by jedmar
Definitely! The synonym was at the incorrect rose.
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 1 JUL 22 by Patricia Routley
Thank you gentlemen. Looks good now.
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most recent 12 MAY 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 23 AUG 08 by Tearose
There is actually no evidence that Jaune Desprez was the seed parent of GdD. Jacotot did not record the parentage, but apparently told his family that the seed parent was an unnamed tea. I'm not sure where the idea that Jaune Desprez was the seed parent came from, but was much later .
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 23 AUG 08 by Cass
The idea came from Brent Dickerson's The Old Rose Advisor.
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 23 AUG 08 by Tearose
Brent got it elsewhere. I've discussed it with him, and he agreed with me that it's an assumption that's been passed on as if it was truth. I think either Beales or Thomas originally started calling it a Noisette based on this belief, but I don't know for sure where they got the idea. I think Rosenlexicon has it with a "?", but I haven't found an earlier source yet that Jager would have gotten it from.
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 23 AUG 08 by Patricia Routley
What about Brent's reference from The Horticulturist, 1846-1875
“Certainly the colour, an ochraceous yellow, the size, as large as ‘Jaune Desprez’, and the Tea scent, make it a great acquisition.” (HstX:398)
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 23 AUG 08 by jedmar
This seems to be the only clue to the 'Jaune Desprez' analogy. In the reference from "Flore des Serres" of 1854, which cites an earlier article by Jacotot himself, both the bloom form and the foliage is said to be that of SdM. Jacotot derives the tea classification from the reflexing of the sepals (lorsque le bouton veut s'ouvrir, elles se retournent fortement sur l'ovaire). Van Houtte first thought it was a Bourbon. Generally in that era the seed parent was known, but not the pollen parent. If I read the references correctly, the "fact" that SdM was the pollen parent was reported later by the Jacotot family as a "family tradition". It would have made more sense to list GdJ as a seedling of SdM. Interesting is the breeding year (1850, not 1853)!
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 24 AUG 08 by Tearose
It would make more sense as the seed parent, but my SdlM has never produced so much as a hip, so I've never doubted the pollen parent story. My personal feeling is that Jacotot, like many other rose lovers, did some experimenting, grew some seed he collected from roses in the nursery, and one was likely the unnamed yellow tea. I have quite a few unnamed roses, that are not worthy of introduction, but I keep them for my own pleasure, since I produced them. I even have one that I think might be useful as a seed parent, if pollinated by the right rose. I think that's similar to how GdD came about. After all, it was the only rose he ever introduced.

I agree with Patricia that the Jaune Desprez reference may have planted the idea in someone's mind that it was the parent. I'd love to know who first stated that it was the parent. I'll have to check my references to see which is the earliest I have.
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 24 AUG 08 by jedmar
If we accept that SdM is the pollen parent, can we speculate which "yellow Tea" Jacotot might have crossed it with? Was he trying to achieve a yellow Tea with the form of SdM's blooms? Was the vigour and climbing tendencies of GdD a chance by-product? Assuming that he would not have called a Noisette a Tea, there were not so many yellow Teas at the time which could have been attractive as a crossing partner for SdM:
Flavescens (Park's Yellow), Hymenée, Thé jaunâtre, Narcisse, Reine Victoria, Devoniensis, Princess Adelaide, Solfatare (sold initially as a yellow tea).
The climbing characteristic must have come from one of these. Except for its climbing sport almost 50 years later, there are only few climbing direct descendants of SdM, and those have all seed parents which carry the climbing gene. So, Devoniensis and Solfatare? Were the others climbers?
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 3 NOV 14 by CybeRose
I don't trust family traditions in such matters. In an article in American Gardening 19: 392 (May 21, 1898) the author reported that 'Harison's Yellow' was a seedling of 'Persian Yellow'; "Our knowledge of its origin came from Miss Harison, the grand-daughter of the originator, and who for many years and until recently, resided in Clinton Place, New York, and is now living at their old country home on the St. Lawrence."

Of course, this origin is impossible because 'Harison's Yellow' was in commerce before 'Persian Yellow' reached the West.

I think it is useful to note that some contemporary writers regarded 'Mme Desprez' (Desprez 1831) as having Noisette in its parentage. 'Jaune Desprez' (Desprez 1830) may share parentage with the other. This could explain the Noisette-like characters in 'Gloire de Dijon'. Folks back then were not clear on the concept of recessive characteristics, beyond some vague notion of atavism.

'Souv. de la Malmaison' is capable of bearing seed. 'Lucy H. Nicolas' (Nicolas) is one example.

If 'Jaune Desprez' or some other yellowish Noisette (Smith's Yellow?) was the pollen parent of 'Mme Desprez', even a self-seedling of 'Malmaison' might show some yellow, along with the climbing habit that was mostly latent in 'Mme Desprez' and 'Malmaison'.

Or if the unknown pollen parent of 'Malmaison' happened to be a white or yellowish tea, the same would be true.

I think it would be interesting to back cross 'Gloire de Dijon' (as pollen parent) with 'Souv. de la Malmaison'.
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 12 MAY 22 by Hamanasu
The description in GST's Rose Book says it's SdlM x "a vigorous tea rose", without pinpointing Desprez a Fleurs Jaunes. So it doesn't look like he's the culprit (or not to the extent of publicly recording that supposition, if he ever made it).
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most recent 5 MAY 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 23 MAR 09 by John Moody
Look out everyone!!!
Jackson & Perkins is up to their old tricks again with this rose. Just as they did with the Cesar E. Chavez rose re-naming it Beloved, they have renamed this rose from Diana, Princess of Wales to Elegant Lady. With the Beloved rose they claimed the Cesar E. Chavez name was hindering sales. I don't know why they re-named this rose as Princess Diana is certainly a very loved person in history and I doubt that name hurt sales of this rose.
All that aside, I have found this rose to be very good. The bush is nicely vigorous and healthy and the blooms are absolutely beautiful. It has very good color and the form is very exhibition with a good high and tight center and plenty of petals to maintain the form for a long time. I would really recommend this rose highly and think you would enjoy it immenseley.
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Reply #1 of 3 posted 23 MAR 09 by Cass
You're right! That is exactly what the J & P website shows. Thanks.
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Reply #2 of 3 posted 27 MAR 09 by wirosarian
According to a posting about this name change on Rosarians Corner, a J&P rep told a RC poster that Prince Charles requested that the name "Diana, Princess of Wales" no longer be used & thus J&P made the change to "Elegant Lady".
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Reply #3 of 3 posted 5 MAY 22 by GardenGlimpses
I was told ‘Diana, Princess of Wales’ was no longer a usable title after they parted ways. I bet Charles was angling for the rose to be renamed ‘ Camilla , Duchess of Cornball’! If Prince Charles contacted me, I’d be 99.999% sure it was a prank!
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most recent 17 MAR 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 24 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
I have heard from some who grow this rose, that the fragrance of R.clinophylla flowers (as well as its dried anthers/pollen), is acetone-like.
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Reply #1 of 10 posted 25 MAY 10 by Cass
It's not quite that bad - bananas and oddly chemically. Acetone is too strong a scent: women associate the smell of nail polish remover with acetone, and Clinophylla shouldn't be associated with an odor that strong or that offensive.
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Reply #2 of 10 posted 25 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
Ok.
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Reply #3 of 10 posted 25 MAY 10 by RoseBlush
George.......

Actually they are included. When a site user posts a COMMENT to a rose page, that comment is archived and will always be attached to that rose page. Unfortunately, many site users do not click either the REFERENCES or COMMENTS tab on the rose page and miss some very good information provided by the rose community.

Fragrance is often variable and it would be almost impossible to report all of the descriptions of the fragrance of a rose. That's why it is very beneficial for people to share their experience with the roses they grow.

Lyn
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Reply #4 of 10 posted 1 JUN 13 by Benaminh
I don't get acetone, but I can see how the camphorous note may be chemical like. Cass mentions bananas, which is somewhat close. I smell Juicy Fruit gum and almond layered with eucalyptus/peppermint. It's a pleasant & unique fragrance combination that should be further explored in hybridizing.

The plant @ SJHRG is now about 8 feet tall by 5 feet wide. The fountaining growth pattern and short flower stems along every leaf node reminds me very much of the grace and delicacy of R. hugonis or R. cantabrigiensis. In early March the silvery hair covering the plant reflects the light and lends a downy softness like lamb's ears. In the heat of June the leaves look more wrinkled and folded, while the down has retreated to the tips of new growths and sepaled flower buds. Not much presence of blackspot or rust, but there might have been some mildew; however, my memory could be mistaken. The fully open, single flowers are 1.5 - 2 inches in diameter, in a warm white or ivory color, and crowned by a large, golden, candelabra like boss of stamens. The flowers blow quickly; therefore, pollen is best collected when the bud is just starting to unfurl, and the petals are still twisted in a flesh colored cone.
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Reply #5 of 10 posted 1 JUN 13 by Jay-Jay
The scent of ripe bananas is isoamylacetaat. Angry bees, or those that allready stung excrete a similar scent, to alert other bees.
During the riping process it exudes ethyleen. Ethyleen is used to ripen unripe fruits(and bananas)
And yes, it is a bit like aceton, but not that strong and intrusive/pushy.
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Reply #6 of 10 posted 4 MAR 22 by CybeRose
Has anyone smelled this rose at night? Not all white flowers are nocturnal, but I've been wondering if some white flowered Rosa species might be attracting some night critters.
Karl
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Reply #7 of 10 posted 5 MAR 22 by Plazbo
Not quite night night yet but just past sunset (but can still mostly see without a torch if that makes sense) and it's very mild and inoffensive. The flowers close up at night though so nocturnal pollinators would be "locked out" as it were.
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Reply #8 of 10 posted 5 MAR 22 by CybeRose
Thanks. That's what I'm looking for.
I read just yesterday that Rosa arvensis is reported to be "scentless by day but sometimes having a faint scent, just discernible, at dusk in warm weather."
It would be helpful to have more info on the pollinators of wild roses.
Karl
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Reply #9 of 10 posted 17 MAR 22 by CybeRose
Have you seen bees hiding in the flowers at night? That has been reported for R. bracteata.
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Reply #10 of 10 posted 17 MAR 22 by Plazbo
No, but I haven't really paid much attention to it. Of note most of the bee's I see around here are native types (like Blue Banded bees) rather than euro/asian/african honey bee's (which have some monitoring and control over if feral hives are reported) which may influence that.
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