HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
Deborah Petersen
most recent 12 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 19 JUL 18 by AquaEyes
I stumbled upon this rose during one of my many "obsessive late-night searches", and something about it seemed familiar. Then I thought of 'September Morn' -- except that rose is much paler. But I then remembered that 'September Morn' is a sport of something else, and looked that rose up.

So, to get to the point, has anyone compared this rose to 'Mme Pierre Euler'? There aren't many pics of that rose, so for other details, I suppose looking at pics of 'September Morn' could suffice for comparison.


Reply #1 of 3 posted 24 JAN by Deborah Petersen
One argument against this being 'Mme Pierre Euler' would be the strong scent it's described as having (also mentioned for sport 'September Morn'). "Zalud" has close to none in warmer weather and only a faint bit of some in the coolest weather (it surprised me that what scent there is was more detectable in January than in April). But, maybe that's just my nose. I'm wondering if anyone else can comment on the scent. Otherwise, leaves, flowers, etc. -- maybe. Unfortunately, it looks like SJHRG no longer has either MPE or SM (from their current list) so I could go compare. I did donate two plants of "Zalud" to them last month.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 24 JAN by Patricia Routley
The Friends of Vintage Roses Collection are listing ‘Mme. Pierre Euler’. Could you ask one or two of those volunteers to do some sniffing?
I’ve added your height of 4 feet to the main page, as well as the two possible identifications.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 12 MAY by Mila & Jul
I dont think it is MPE. I have MPE in my garden (ex Guillot): MPE has an etreme strong scent, the color is more uniform and the thorns are more and smaller...
most recent 3 MAY HIDE POSTS
Initial post 3 MAY by Deborah Petersen
Not exactly "short", in my experience, as given in the description. I am currently growing this rose as a sort of pillar which, I notice this morning, is roughly 8' tall (would be taller with more support). I imagine a free-standing bush could build with time to the same extent as 'Miss Lowe's Variety', for example, or 'Comtesse du Cayla', which are generally 8' x 12' here.
most recent 7 JAN SHOW ALL
Initial post 30 DEC 15 by Michael Garhart
There are so many of these older dark red HTs, but this one looks cool!

Instead of focusing on the flowers to ID it, I focused on what could have produced foliage like this. There are many damask red HT lines from yesteryear. Most of them have rather funky foliage, but this one seems to have unusual leaves for damask reds. So looking at what could have produced this seemed like a better idea. I currently considering the Charles Mallerin lines, which can get that rather ovoid foliage type. Still unsure!
Reply #1 of 8 posted 30 DEC 15 by Patricia Routley
I thoroughly agree with looking beyond the bloom shots.
Funky foliage? I’ve seen roundish leaves in the oldies. My ?'Charles Mallerin' doesn’t seem to have leaves that are so serrated as in the photos. Probably the way to eliminate this one is to look at the bush as a whole. Does it make basals freely - CM doesn’t. Are they lopsided - as CM can be. But the photos certainly show the almost touchable velvet and a bloom is showing glimpses of the yellow stamens as I have seen in my ?‘Charles Mallerin’. More photos of the pedicel, showing any glands, and the armature on the canes might help.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 30 DEC 15 by Michael Garhart
Oh, sorry. I didnt mean CM itself. I intended to mean the roses that came after it, as opposed to, for example, something bred beyond Etoile de Holland.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 31 DEC 15 by Deborah Petersen
I've posted a photo of a pedicel and a few other photos of details (such as they are, this being winter here), with photos of prickles arriving tomorrow, with luck. It is moderately armed, I would say -- not so heavily armed as to strike terror as one approaches, but a smattering of medium-size prickles. The bush produces basals, but hard to gauge relative productivity, given how young it is.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 31 DEC 15 by Michael Garhart
It looks good for an older red.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 31 DEC 15 by Deborah Petersen
So far it's been a good bloomer (regular flushes, quick turnaround) and healthy bush.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 31 DEC 15 by Patricia Routley
Excellent and clear photos Deborah.
Because of the green wood on my bush and the original bush - and the red wood on your bush;
and the regular flushes and quick turnaround - against my once in a blue moon when it pleases, I believe your rose is not the same as mine and therefore possibly not (my rose is a foundling), 'Charles Mallerin'.
I have added the various characteristics on the rose to the main page Notes.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 6 JAN by CybeRose
I think it is noteworthy that the leaves are often gray-green, like the picture I added from October 8, 2006 - San Jose Heritage
Reply #8 of 8 posted 7 JAN by Patricia Routley
Thank you Karl. I have added gray-green foliage. The characteristic of red wood is so identifiable. That will be red new wood I think, that I want to ask others to go out and check all their old hybrid teas. For some reason, the “San Leandro Dark Red HT” seems so familiar and fascinates me. Does anyone know Mrs. Madeiros to ask her what decade she can pin it back to?
most recent 18 SEP SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 SEP by Desertgarden561
Can this rose be grown as a free-standing shrub?
Reply #1 of 1 posted 18 SEP by Deborah Petersen
No way to know for sure, having not tried it myself or heard of anyone who has, but I think it wouldn't be too easy to deal with, growing that way. A mature plant throws out long, relatively lax canes (10'+), which readily take advantage of any upward support they find (I have to spend time keeping it out of surrounding small trees and keeping it on its own support), while the main trunk is still not that substantial, even after some years (unlike Mme. Alfred Carriere, which has hefty main trunks and can be trained to be freestanding). It would be a sprawling, very thorny thing with massive amounts of biomass, I think (maybe cascading down a hill would work?). Its response to pruning is vigorous production of more long canes so I tend to cut a cane off entirely if I want to stop it from going some direction.
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