HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 7 NOV SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 NOV by HubertG
All three of the early American catalogue illustrations of 'Souvenir de Thérèse Levet' posted here appear to be copies of the 1883 colour plate of the red tea rose 'André Schwartz'. The two black and white engravings appear to be almost identical copies of 'André Schwartz', and the colour illustration is a looser copy but still similar enough to say that the artist has used the 'André Schwartz' plate as a model.
So currently it seems that no truly authentic illustrations of 'Souvenir de Thérèse Levet' have come to light.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 3 NOV by jedmar
Good catch! a respective note has been added to the three pictures.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 3 NOV by HubertG
Thank you!
Reply #3 of 8 posted 6 NOV by CybeRose
The Hill & Co catalog (1889) describes Therese:
"The bloom bears a considerable resemblance to Catherine Mermet in form; each petal shows at the center of its margin a decided point, which gives the flower a clear-cut appearance. "

This is not at all like the 'Souv. de Therese Levet' growing at the San Jose Heritage.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 6 NOV by HubertG
Also in the Ketten Bros reference is "coupe pointu", presumably referring to the same feature. There are many early references which don't really match the Australian 'Souvenir de Thérèse Levet'. Does the San Jose plant seem to be the same as the Australian SdTL, CybeRose?
Reply #5 of 8 posted 7 NOV by CybeRose
Yes, much the same. I uploaded a picture so you can see for yourself.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 7 NOV by HubertG
Thanks, yes, that does look the same as what I grow as 'Souvenir de Thérèse Levet'.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 7 NOV by Margaret Furness
Hmmmm. Does coupe pointu mean an indentation or a sticking-out point (mucronate), as in Wedding Day?
The photos sent by Leonie K (under "Kombacy Elyena" ) don't show the latter.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 7 NOV by HubertG
A quick check of the abbreviation explanations on page XX of the 1912 Ketten Freres catalogue shows 'c' = "Coupe, variété se prêtant bien pour la fleur coupée." or 'Cut. Variety well suited for cut flowers'
So I guess it isn't "coupe pointu" or 'cut pointed', but 'suitable for cutting' and 'pointed' (whatever that might mean).
Leonie has proved her "Joanne" is certainly suitable for cutting. ;-) It is beautiful.
most recent 31 OCT HIDE POSTS
Initial post 31 OCT by HubertG
Simply based upon someone's memory of this rose being a "Mrs. Something", I wonder if it is 'Mrs Elliott'. The mauve-pink flowers seem to fit the bill and it apparently was in Australia early on. I found this reference in 'The Victorian Farmers Journal and Gardeners Chronicle' of 9 Feb, 1861, page 20:

"this queen of flowers, the good much-loved old English rose - we have not lagged so far behind, as the following list will testify, which are now largely grown throughout the colony, viz .-
Auguste Mie, Aimee Vibert, Baronne Prevot, Boule de Nanteuil, Chenedole, Cloth of Gold, Coupe de Hebe, Devoniensis, Dupetit Thouars Duchess of Sutherland, Frederick II., Geant des Batailles, General Jacqueminot, Jacques Laffette, La Ville de Bruxelles, La Reine, Magna Rosea, Madame Andot, Do.Bravy, Do. Laffay, Do. Maurin, Do. Trudeux, Do. Zoutman, Mrs Bosanquet, Do. Elliott, Paul Ricaut,Malmaison, Vicomtesse de Cazes... "
Reply #1 of 2 posted 31 OCT by Margaret Furness
No, it doesn't repeat. A pity.
The UK and Sangerhausen grow it as Gaspard Monge.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 31 OCT by HubertG
Ah, no matter. It was just a thought.
most recent 31 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 OCT 16 by Margaret Furness
One of three unknowns in the garden of 'The Cedars', which belonged to a well-loved Australian painter and early conservationist, Sir Hans Heysen. He swapped plants with the diva Dame Nellie Melba, who was a neighbour of Alistair Clark, but there is no historical evidence to call them Clark roses.
Last summer this rose repeat-flowered; we will watch what it does this year. The parent plant is growing in shade, and is lanky.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 13 OCT 16 by Give me caffeine
That's rather appealing.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 15 DEC 16 by Patricia Routley
Margaret - you mentioned elsewhere today.... if "Heysen's Semisingle" is Bishop Darlington.....
A characteristic in the file is that "Heysen's Semisingle" does not set hips.
There is a hip photo in the 'Bishop Darlington' file and so I have discounted this possibility on the main page.
Reply #4 of 8 posted 15 DEC 16 by Margaret Furness
I think some of the info in the early references was based on the parent plant, which was growing in shade and with competition from trees, and may be incorrect. For example, I was told it didn't repeat. It certainly did in my garden last year, but I need to keep watching to see if that was just an aberration. Will also watch to see if it sets hips.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 15 DEC 16 by Patricia Routley
The more information you have on foundling pages, the more people may be able to help.

We have three choices:
blooms in flushes throughout the season
spring or summer flush with scattered later bloom
occasional repeat later in the season
Reply #6 of 8 posted 31 OCT by HubertG
'Gustave Régis' did not set hips either. I don't know how this rose compares to the photos of 'Gustave Régis' here. It seems to match quite well to the Betten illustration but the foliage in the English photos seems to be rounder. Not sure about the other photos.

I must admit Heysen's rose does have a bit of a Gigantea feel to it.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 31 OCT by Margaret Furness
The constriction at the top of the receptacle should help. I can't see that area all that well in the photos of Bishop Darlington. I will keep watching HS for hips.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 31 OCT by HubertG
Or maybe Halstead's 'Vanity'?? That was a Tea x Hybrid Tea, so probably triploid and possibly didn't set hips.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 14 OCT 16 by Patricia Routley
Thanks for the various details on the latest Australian foundlings, Margaret. We hope more people will contribute information as they note it.
most recent 31 OCT SHOW ALL
Initial post 9 JAN 17 by Patricia Routley
Any photos of the stems?
Reply #1 of 5 posted 10 JAN 17 by Margaret Furness
The camera didn't want to focus on the prickles - will try again. They persist on mature stems, with their hooked beak, and are grey.
My plant is about 3 years old, cutting-grown, and is about 1m tall, and upright. Probably won't get much taller. I get very little scent from it, if any.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 31 OCT by HubertG
The short dense growth and colour makes me think of 'Lady Mary Fitzwilliam', so possibly this could be something that is a generation or two removed from LMFW, maybe even back-crossed to a Tea since it seems to not set hips.
Edit: I just saw Margaret's photo comment about the bloom being 18cm across. That's huge! That size alone should be a good clue when searching for possible identities.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 31 OCT by Margaret Furness
The closest I could get was Merveille de Lyon, but that's a seed parent of Frau Karl Druschki, which makes it unlikely.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 31 OCT by HubertG
I toyed with 'König Laurin' which had enormous flowers, but the couple of photos here don't really match that well, and it wasn't mentioned much in Australian literature. 'Mme. Georges Durrschmitt' is referred to as a HT in the Aussie papers but it's breeding is between two teas, so seems unlikely too. Plus that was very fragrant.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 31 OCT by Margaret Furness
Two myths: "The largest rose flower you'll find in an old garden is Paul Neyron", and "Bigger is better". There is one nice large flower on it, which I will photograph in the morning, but usually it becomes coarse or disorganised when fully open. The half-open buds can be lovely; like mother-of-pearl.
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