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Discussion id : 62-983
most recent 14 APR 12 SHOW ALL
Initial post 26 MAR 12 by Shannon03
This is my first time growing a rose so all advise is greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance for your time in helping me! I am growing a St. Josephs Coat rose that I purchased at a whole foods store. I've done a lot of research but have found no strait answers and many that are contradictory. So here I am you guys seem to be the best and most knowledgeable! Here's what I've got going on: When I first bought the plant I put it in a pot with a mixture of fertilizer and clay like soil (bc thats what i previously read to do)I have here in Galveston TX. I then realized the soil was staying way to damp so I removed as much of the clay as possible and added potting soil mixed into what I had. It has dried out significantly. But I have been noticing the ends of my branches are turning black. I cut one of the blackened branches and noticed a crystal like substance in the middle of the cut branch. I am also seeing a white powdery substance only on the newest growth of leaves. Since I have replanted it there has been no new growth and the newsest leaves seem to be dieng off. Do I have a type of mold from the previously wet clay soil? Do I cut off the blackened branches (I read not to cuz plant is so young)? How do I treat all this? Please help me save my beloved josephs coat!!! I would add pictures but have not figured out how to yet, sorry! My plants about 1-1 1/2 foot tall.
Reply #1 of 19 posted 27 MAR 12 by bungalow1056
Hi. I'm so sorry your rose is not doing very well. If you're like me, you develop a bit of an emotional attachment to them. If they look pitiful, you fret!

Some photos would be helpful if you could get them loaded. Otherwise, it sounds like there are multiple problems going on. Generally, it is not a good idea to fertilize newly planted roses until they put on some new growth on their own. The fine roots are burned by quick release fertilizers. You are not alone in doing this. Many do so on the bad advice of ill-advised sellers.

A soil mix of 50% clay/50% potting mix or just quality, unfertilized potting mix should be perfectly fine to use for the plants. Make sure the pots drain well. Water should easily flow out of the bottom. Roses hate 'wet feet'. If the pots might still contain a fair amount of the fertilizer you used, flush them copiously with water to wash some of it out.

Go ahead and trim off any black or dead stems/foliage. They're already gone and will do nothing to help the plants recover. Cut back any sickly looking canes, stems or leaves down to healthy, green tissue. Make sure the pots are situated so they plants receive at least 6 hours of sun a day and get good air circulation- no crowding.

It does sound like you probably have mildew/mold issues and may well also have some insect damage going on. Usually, if a rose weakens due to one issue, the others set in quickly. Purchase a quality fungicide and an insecticide made specifically for roses and treat the plants according to the label instructions. This may help. I hope it does.

I don't have personal experience with Joseph's Coat but have heard that the shrub is prone to problems sometimes. The American Rose Society rates it a 7.5 which is only a fair score. The plants will likely need extra attention and petting in the long run.

If, sadly, the plants you have don't recover, I would recommend replacing them with plants from a specialty rose nursery instead of a food market or big box store. Often, non-specialty vendors simply don't have the knowledge or expertise specific to roses. Does any of this help? Lynn
Reply #2 of 19 posted 27 MAR 12 by Jay-Jay
What kind of fertilizer did You use?
Most of the time rosaceae (strawberries too) do not like to touch fertilizer with their roots
Reply #4 of 19 posted 28 MAR 12 by Shannon03
I used miracle grow fertilizer mixted with the clay soil surrounding my area at first and the plant seemed to be doing really well and growing fastly for the first week-week &1/2. Until that clay was causing 'wet feet' and then bugs despite well drainage and sunlight. Thats when I removed as many clay clumps as possible and added potting soil hoping to help with moisture problem. Thank you for your time, concern and help! Greatly appreciated!
Reply #5 of 19 posted 28 MAR 12 by bungalow1056
It sounds like you got some good advice from the garden center that fairly well matches what Jay-Jay and I proposed. I would not be surprised at all if they make a full recovery. Given the issues, the yellowing leaves don't surprise me either. Go ahead and snip those off.

The growth that you saw in the first week or so was likely built on the energy the plants had stored up before being repotted. When the new roots tried to form, they were probably stunted by the dense, wet soil and very well may have been burned by the fertilizer. As far as I know, the organic slow release types (bone meal, blood meal, emulsions, etc) do not pose the same problems. Once plants are well established, the Miracle-Gro type fertilizers are fine to use. If the plants are holding on to some decent core root and cane structures, they'll be okay.

Clay soils in and of themselves are actually high in essential plant nutrients but the roots have a hard time penetrating them when young and critical root oxygen supplies are reduced. Once they mature, the roots have a stronger capability to penetrate the denser clays. I live in NC and we have dense red clay in many areas. When I pot a rose, ideally, I use about 20% native soil, 50% unfertilized, commercial potting mix and 20% cured compost or humus with 10% of aged hen manure mixed in.

Let us know how the plants do and take some pics for us when you get it figured out. Lynn
Reply #6 of 19 posted 28 MAR 12 by Shannon03
Should I water it now that I've done all that? It's been a few days since I lightly watered last. Also, how often should I spray that triple action solution on the plant?
Reply #7 of 19 posted 28 MAR 12 by bungalow1056
I think it would be fine to go ahead and water them thoroughly since you've repotted them. Then do so again about every 3-4 days until they show substantial new top growth. Water them until a good overflow of water is seeping from the bottom of the pots. I would use the combo spray once a week for three weeks then take a break to see how the plants respond. I have a potted 'Herbie' that has been nearly defoliated by a surprise spider mite attack. I'm spraying it once a week for three weeks and then hoping for a good recovery.
Reply #3 of 19 posted 28 MAR 12 by Shannon03
Thank you soo much for you advice!!! I keep trying to upload pics from my iPhone but for some reason which I still have not figured out obviously, it's not allowing me or I'm not doing It right I suppose. When I first planted my rose with the fertilizer and clay mixture it was doing great and growing really well. The problems seemed to have started once I noticed the clay was not drying out at all even though my draingage is well and rose is in constant sunlight the clay was retaining to much moisture. Then, as you said, i also began to notice bugs. So that's why I removed as much of the clumps of clay as possible and added potting soil hoping to rid of wet feet and bugs. Today I bought a triple action spray that's insecticide, fungicide & miticide (store advised). I cut off the blackened branches and also the leaves with white crystals on them (garden center said to) and sprayed the bush with treatment. While doing this today i also noticed the leaves are turning yellow now...grr this is SO frustrating! Once again, I thank you for your help and will GLADLY take in any more advice! As you were also right about my emotional attachment to my plants ;)! Thank you so much for your time and suggestions i greatly appreciate it!
Reply #8 of 19 posted 29 MAR 12 by CarolynB
Hi, I just saw your question here. In my experience, it's NEVER a good idea to use any clay soil in the pot with a potted rose. As you saw with your rose, in a pot the clay soil doesn't drain quickly enough, and the rose's health suffers from the roots staying too wet. There's something about soil in a pot that acts differently with regard to draining than when a plant is growing directly in the ground. When roses are in a pot, they do much better with commercial potting soil, which drains much better. I lost a few roses because I tried to make my own homemade potting soil, using a mixture of compost, perlite, and my garden soil which is heavy clay. The roses I potted in this soil got a lot of dieback (black tips on the branches), like yours did. Some of them also got powdery mildew, which I think is the white powdery substance you described. One of my roses, which never got any powdery mildew when it was potted in commercial potting soil, was always covered with it after I repotted it in my homemade potting soil. I tried being very careful about watering very lightly because the soil took so long to drain, but this only slowed the decline of the roses, it didn't stop it. After I realized this was happening, I tried planting one rose in a half-and-half mixture of my homemade potting soil and commercial potting soil, but even this was too much clay for a rose in a pot. This rose's decline was slower than the others, but it still did decline. (Needless to say, I never do this anymore. Since I can no longer use commercial potting soil due to an allergy, all my roses are planted directly in the ground.)

I'm not an expert on how to save a rose after its health has suffered this much. I would say definitely cut off the dieback (black tips) as soon as you see it, because if you don't, it will spread further and further down the branches. Dieback never goes away if you leave it there. If you're going to keep the rose in a pot, I would say definitely use a good-quality commercial potting soil, without any clay soil added. You could try planting your rose in the ground, using a good-quality compost mixed in with your soil, if your soil needs improving. I was able to save a few of my roses after their health was damaged by my potting soil fiasco, by planting them in the ground. But it took a few years before they started having fairly normal growth and blooming again.

I hope you're able to save your rose.
Reply #9 of 19 posted 29 MAR 12 by bungalow1056
Good info!
Reply #10 of 19 posted 31 MAR 12 by Shannon03
I want to thank everyone for their helpful advice! You guys are great! I will keep ya posted on my Josephs Coat recovery (fingers crossed)!

Now for my newest buys:
Last night I bought a Double Knock Out Rose, a tomato plant, a bag of MojoGro organic potting soil (ingrediants: composted forest organic matter, composted farm cellulose and lignin organic matter, perlite, bloodmeal) and another bigger bag of Mojo Grow garden soil that is 3in1 all natural blend of organic matter, nutrients, microbes and say feeds for up to 6 months (ingredients: composted forest organic matter, composted farm cellulose and lignin organic matter and perlite).
Is this good soil?
Can I use it for potting my Knock Out rose? Any and all advise for my new Double Knock Out rose would be great so I can start this one off right this time without having to go through what I've gone through with my Josephs Coat!
Also, this is my first time growing a tomato plant as well so if any one can guide me threw that too I would greatly appreciate it!

I am SO greatfull for you guys, this website and the helpful people on it ARE THE BEST!
Reply #11 of 19 posted 31 MAR 12 by Lyn G

There are a lot of right ways to grow roses. Sometimes, due to the climate conditions one potting soil may be too dense, or another may be too light, so a lot of container gardening is a matter of experimentation. When I am referring to the density of the soil, for me, since I live in an arid climate that gets triple digit heat for months, I want a denser soil, so that it doesn't dry out too fast. In other climates, the soil I use would not drain quickly enough and cause problems, but a different, lighter, soil mix would be perfect.

I prefer to start plants in potting soils with no fertilizer mixed into the soil. Other gardeners will say it's really effective for them.

HMF has a wealth of information that you can look up on your own without waiting for a reply from the rose community. There's an article in the Ezine by Rory Lee about growing miniature roses in containers, but it applies to big roses, too.

Also, you can do a text search of both the Ezine and the Q & A Forum. Site users may not be answering your specific question, but you can glean a lot of information by going through the archives.

The most important thing is to have fun with your roses.

Reply #12 of 19 posted 1 APR 12 by bungalow1056
Hi Shannon. Hi Lyn. I enjoyed reading your take on soil differences Lyn. It is so true that soils can be so different. I deal with clays mostly and almost always have to amend any planting spot with lots or organic matter. It gets hot here in NC too (not tripe digits, thank goodness) but the heat always comes with high humidity. The battle against blackspot is constant in addition to having to keep the soil moist during a summer drought. And one should definitely have fun with his/her roses. I love bending the "rose rules"!

Shannon- I have had some great results using a soil mixture like the one you describe. I'd be comfortable saying that any soil containing a good balance of organics, humus and compost will probably work well for any rose. I use it to amend my beds and for pot plantings. I've also had good results using the newer soils and conditioners that include beneficial mycorhizzae. There is real evidence that these help the health and vigor of root systems and overall plant health, especially new plantings.

Knock Out roses are bred for ease of growth, vigor and health so yours will likely perform very well potted with the good soil mixture.
Reply #13 of 19 posted 1 APR 12 by CarolynB
Shannon, what kind of climate do you have where you live? I live in a climate that gets very hot and dry in the summer -- frequently in the mid to high 90s, and sometimes over 100 degrees. I have a Double Knock Out rose, and it doesn't seem to do well in a spot with all-day sun, except in spring when the weather is still cool or just moderately warm. When the weather gets hot, the leaves get dried-out looking, and they stay that way all summer (even though most of my roses don't do that). The owner of our local plant nursery told me that Knock Out roses like a cooler climate than what we have here. So, if you also have a hot-summer climate, you might want to put your Knock Out rose in a spot that gets morning sun (when the day is still cooler), but shade in the afternoon (when it's hotter).
Reply #14 of 19 posted 2 APR 12 by Shannon03
I have great news guys...I did it, it worked!!!! And all thanks to you guys!!! On the very top of my last limb left where I had to chop of the moldy top leaves, where I had cut there are 3 new leaf growths! I am so happy!!!!

In response to where I live...I live in-between Houston and Galveston TX in a city called League City. I was wondering how do I go about finding out what zone this is?

Once again thank y'all for helping me save my josephs coat!!!! I love you guys!!!!
Reply #15 of 19 posted 2 APR 12 by bungalow1056
Hi Shannon. I'm so glad to hear that your Joseph's Coat seems to be recovering. I bet he'll do just fine and put on some new blooms in no time. I checked the USDA website and your area looks to be zone 9a/9b depending on how close to the gulf coast you are. Here's a link to the newest map where you can search by zip code:
Reply #16 of 19 posted 2 APR 12 by CarolynB
That is great news! I'm happy for you.
Reply #17 of 19 posted 3 APR 12 by Shannon03
My day just got ruined and tears aren't far from I was walking by my Josephs coat a thorn from the last and only branch that was recovering so well snaged on my pants and partially snapped in half at the very bottom where it's attached to the main branch. Now I'm mad at the whole world (lol). It's still attached enough to where the limb is able to stand up strait on it's own (for now). Does this mean game over for my well recovered 1 branch left or is there something I can do to save it from breaking off all the way or dieing? PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me THERE IS I'm on my knees!!
I've stressed & worked so hard on recovering this rose and was ecstatic that I successfully accomplished recovering it! Now my parade is getting hit by a hurrican I'm so agry! This one particular rose is like a child to me that just broke his leg (I have no kids). Its very sentimental to me, my grandfather had them so its a piece of him still with me.
Now that you understand my pain...I'm begging please tell me some good news! I'm devastated!
I was thinking should I add some kind of support to prevent the wind from snapping it off completely or a plant glue type product if that exists lol ?

You guys are the best so I'll be waiting anxiously for some hopefully good news!
Thanks a ton guys!!
Reply #18 of 19 posted 4 APR 12 by Lyn G

I don't know the best answer, but it's spring. Roses put on their new growth this time of year. I think I would treat it as if it were a band and give it time and normal care. I don't think I would give it any fertilizer but just keep the soil in the container moist and give the rose a chance to do it's thing. Since it's not dead, give it time to live or die. Only time will let you know if the rose is going to come back.

In nature, roses get chomped down to virtually nothing by animals as they are considered to be food. The animals don't always stop at the right height for proper pruning and the roses come back.

Jack Harkness wrote in his book "Roses" ...."Roses are extremely lively plants, and usually recover from the depredations of their parasites." and from my own experience, they often recover very nicely from my mistakes. Kind of gives you hope, doesn't it ?

Reply #19 of 19 posted 14 APR 12 by Shannon03
Sorry it's been a while guys I kinda overwhelmed myself with to many plants at once and they all had problems so I've been super busy. This is what I'm working with now...yellow Easter Lillys, petunias, double knock out rose, pink azaleas, Bougainville, tomato plant, impatience, marigold & gardenia. I had a st.josephs coat rose but that branch I previously wrote about broke all the way off so this is what I did. I took a water bottle, cut it open and filled it with about an inch or two of organic soil. I cut the limb down to fit in bottle and soaked the limb in water over night. Then I placed the limb in the bottle, misted it with water and closed it up plastic cling wrap. Creating a little oasis which I read will help form roots from that limb. Correct me if I'm wrong please! I had a huge black spot breakout on all my plants which I think I have under control finally. However, my gardenia bush has been taken over by spider mites I believe it is, spider like nesting every where. So what I read and did last night was created a solution of soap and water and sprayed the entire bush. Today it seems alot has gone away but there are still some webs. Once again feel free to correct me! Every plant seems to have a problem so I'm apologizing now for this extremely long message filled with problems! Next, i just noticed my Bougainville seems to have white mold growing on few leaves, some yellowing spots and something munching on it. I read it's from overwatering and to cure by cutting molded leaves and spray with fungicide? Next, on my petunias all the flowers died off and it looks like there are little black flys that I just now noticed. Next, my marigold leaves are browning at the tips. Lastly, my yellow Lillys have long light brown fast moving bugs inside the flower where the pollen is. Some of them have turned black where the yellow pollen should be and the Lillys are no longer turning yellow they are staying green. As always, any and all advise and suggestions is greatly appreciated! As you now know I HAVE MAGER PROBLEMS! I'm overwhelmed and a first timer to this all and I'm this close to trashing it all but unfortanetly am not a quitter that easily. Very aggravating though! Y'all please help me! Thank you soo much in advance! I love you guys!
Discussion id : 51-337
most recent 7 JAN 11 SHOW ALL
Initial post 4 JAN 11 by reload69
I have a row of Privet hedges which span about 50 feet long and 12 feet high. there are 14 privet trees all together and are planted 3 feet apart. The Privet adds nice privacy but could use some color. I wanted to know if it would harm the hedge to try and grow a Climbing rose such as New Dawn inside the front bottom half of the hedges to have some colorful flowers along with my privacy hedge. If so, how close should i plant this to the privet. If this would damage the hedge or would not work for the rose please let me know. Thank you for you help
Reply #1 of 2 posted 6 JAN 11 by Jay-Jay
Maybe another rose with less stiff canes and less brutal thorns? (Mme. Alfred Carrière? Crépuscule?) So the rose could be better trained and pruned. And the hedge is trimmed easier with a friendlier rose. Clematisses could add colour too, maybe someone of the Clematis section might serve You with some proper advise.

I would advise You to plant the rose at least 40cm. away from the hedge. It would need the first years some watering, unless your area is very wet. The roses better can't be planted on the shady side of the hedge. Privet doesn't root deep and has lots and lots of small roots right beneath the surface.

Good luck!
Reply #2 of 2 posted 7 JAN 11 by reload69
Thank you for the detailed reply. I am also concered about the thorns as well. I just enjoy the large flower size of the New Dawn Breed. Any Idea how often you need to trim a climbing rose to keep its desired shape. Also if anyone has a clematis suggestion that has worked for them and would be more practicle i will surley look into it. Thanks again for the help.
Discussion id : 50-172
most recent 30 NOV 10 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 30 NOV 10 by Darrell
Location is important for roses. Does anyone know how high, how large the rose tea 'Captain Philip Green' will grow?
Discussion id : 49-208
most recent 28 OCT 10 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 28 OCT 10 by hayat
when i sow seeds in soil the sprouts are extraordinarily leggy (the stem under the first two leaves is too long) after 4/5 days these start falling down and die may I please know the solution
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