Thank you true-blue. Reference added with the words 'Approximate translation'. A page number might be good in future reference.

Apparently, during some of the recent changes to the HMF site, some information has been lost. Some time ago, I posted the low down on Irene/PGA. Here it is, hopefully, for the last time.

My name is Kim Rupert. For some years I volunteered at The Huntington Library propagating roses. I met Mike Lowe there and we exchanged material. Two roses he sent for me to propagate for the gardens were Irene Watts and Francis Debreuil, both of which he imported from Peter Beales in England. I rooted both roses and both were planted in the Huntington Gardens. Because of my connections and associations with various old rose nurseries, notably Sequoia and Vintage, I shared both of these roses with both of those nurseries, among others.

Some years after the roses were included in the gardens, we had the Rose Festival, which was the event we hosted to alternate between the Huntington Old Rose Symposiums. At this particular one, David Ruston, the major nurseryman in the Southern Hemisphere, provided his wonderful recreations of floral masterpieces in living material. I'd noticed the similarities between the Beales/Lowe Irene Watts and Pink Gruss an Aachen, so I cut matching material from the plant I propagated from Mike Lowe/Beales and the many decades old Pink Gruss an Aachen, which was from commercial sources and had grown in the Huntington Gardens for many years. NO ONE could tell them apart. Everyone I showed them to, from David Ruston, Clair Martin (The Huntington Curator of Roses), through all the local "experts" in attendance...NO ONE could detect any difference between these roses.

They were not confused in the Huntington Gardens. I received the Lowe material at my home and took them to The Huntington to root. I took the cuttings from the Lowe/Beales Irene Watts I rooted and I rooted the cuttings. I gave the cuttings to both Vintage and Sequioa. Both of them ended up supplying the roses to other nurseries. Many people bought them from these sources and then shared them with more nurseries. All of the Irene Watts and the Francis Dubreuil in this country offered for sale in the past fifteen years have come from the material Mike Lowe imported from Peter Beales, sent me to propagate for The Huntington and then from the plants we propagated and sold or distributed from there.

As for Ralph Moore maintaining a collection of rare and unusual roses, nice thought. I've known Mr. Moore for 25 years. He is interested in anything to do with roses, but he never maintained a collection of anything other than what fit his interest in achieving his breeding goals. It was Carolyn who "maintained" the "rose collection", largely at the urging of those of us who had access to the old, rare and unusual things and fed them to Sequoia then attempted to create markets for them. Mr. Moore took notice of Carolyn's efforts, but never "maintained" any sort of old, rare nor unusual roses. Unless it was directly involved with what he wanted to create, his notice and interest were seldom more than passing. Carolyn enjoyed them, found them interesting and understood the commercial value, though limited, of offering otherwise unavailable varieties.

So, despite cultural differences, climatic differences and the originating nursery, unless someone has imported them otherwise, which I have been unable to find any evidence of, all of the Irene Watts sold in this country since the 80s are Pink Gruss an Aachen. All of the Francis Dubreuil sold in this country in the same time period are Barcelona. How the confusion occured in Britain at the Beales Nursery is beyond my knowledge. The roses we have here as those two, rare, "Teas" and "Chinas"...aren't.