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'Sombreuil' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 98-612
most recent 6 JUN 17 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 19 APR 17 by Daniel Alm
Seeing as to how the true identity of the rose long sold as Sombrieul is in question, and the records of Wyant are also undependable, I don't feel it is appropriate to list the parentage as New Dawn X Mme Hardy. Official parentage should be changed back to unknown until genetic testing provides further answers. ~Benaminh
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 21 APR 17 by Nastarana
Particularly in view of the fact that 'Mme. Hardy' is sterile.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 21 APR 17 by jedmar
I agree, Wyant's statements in this respect can be doubted. Personally, I also find the ARS "decision" to name this rose 'Sombreuil' unfortunate. 'Colonial White' clearly has nothing to do with the real 'Sombreuil' by Robert. Keeping the name can only be explained by commercial interests.
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 1 JUN 17 by Jay-Jay
This rose has almost the same scent as New Dawn. In my opinion a (for me a bit repulsive) "synthetic" apple fragrance, like the perfume used in the so-called air-fresheners used on toilets.
I thought/believed Sombreuil was an old rose...
Better said Sombreuls were/are old roses.
So we've got the wrong rose in our garden.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 3 JUN 17 by jedmar
'Colonial White' was sold for many years as 'Sombreuil', Robert's Tea, and is still being sold. Difficult to understand today how anybody could see a Tea in this climber.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 6 JUN 17 by billy teabag
My nose agrees with yours Jay-Jay.
And both 'New Dawn' and 'Colonial White' / "the rose sold as Sombreuil" have very similar robust growth that is impressively armed. I have cut long canes of fresh growth from each variety and was not able to tell the difference.
It would be very interesting to see whether expert DNA comparison can tell us how closely related they are.
If the ARS was prepared to revisit this decision and allocate the name 'Colonial White' to this rose, rather than Sombreuil, much of the current confusion could be dispensed with.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 6 JUN 17 by Jay-Jay
A DNA comparison would do the trick, but who would bother to do so, that has access to such resources?
Maybe a student at an agricultural university doing some "obscure" research?

Other New Dawn descendants like Aloha (Boerner) and Compassion inherited this "New Dawn-scent" that appears over here in warmer periods.
Of both roses, the fragrance is during lower temps, or in Fall, more balanced, sweeter, richer:
A bit of old rose, damask, citrus and sometimes a bit of bitter almond.
Compassion may have inherited the extra scent from Crimson Glory.
In the ancestry of New Dawn, there are more strong scented roses.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 6 JUN 17 by billy teabag
Dr Malcolm Manners has managed to facilitate this sort of research in the past, and perhaps he can again.
They have done some very useful work such as that by Nancy Morvillo et al
http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=66.1886
where it was established that the rose often sold and seen under the name 'Bloomfield Abundance' was 'Spray Cecile Brunner', the sport of 'Mlle Cecile Brunner'.

Perhaps we should make a wish list of burning questions that might be answered by DNA analysis and hope that some educational institution might be able to help, or that a generous patron might be interested in sponsoring this sort of research.
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Discussion id : 100-348
most recent 1 JUN 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 JUN 17 by Jay-Jay
When one clicks on Sombreuil (LCl, Unknown circa 1880) this rose pops up too???
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Discussion id : 97-714
most recent 25 FEB 17 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 25 FEB 17 by billy teabag
"Introduced in United States by Wyant (Melvin E. Wyant, Rose Specialist) in 1959 as 'Sombreuil'. " needs to be amended. Wyant introduced the rose under the name 'Colonial White'.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 25 FEB 17 by Patricia Routley
Amended. Thanks Billy.
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Discussion id : 87-968
most recent 22 SEP 15 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 21 SEP 15 by CybeRose
Canadian Rose Annual, 1993 pp. 49-63
The Evolution of Climbing Roses
Stephen Scaniello
p. 53
Another of the great rose mysteries is 'Sombreuil'. Every nursery sells it as a Tea Rose. We often question whether it is because we do not have any winter dieback on it at all in our garden. If it was a Tea Rose it would not grow so aggressively in colder climates. The first drawing found of 'Sombreuil' is dated 1857. Looking at it and then at the rose sold as 'Sombreuil' and growing in the Cranford Rose Garden, I find it harder and harder to believe that they are the same rose. Graham Stuart Thomas told me that maybe the artist got tired and did not want to paint all the little petals in the middle. That could be true, but we are very suspicious because our 'Sombreuil' is not tender. It covers a twelve foot lattice and is eight to ten feet wide. Whatever we have, it is a gorgeous rose. It blooms all summer, but especially in the spring, with long basel breaks bearing fragrant blooms on the ends. It is just part of the ongoing research that I find myself involved in, and to which I hope I never find all the answers.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 22 SEP 15 by Patricia Routley
Thanks Karl.
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