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'Veilchenblau' rose Reviews & Comments
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Journal of Genetics, 32: 117-170 (1936)
A Biochemical Survey of Factors for Flower Colour
Rose Scott-Montcrieff
p. 127. Complex anthocyanins occur more often in nature than might be supposed from the results of isolation and identification. ... The most interesting case recorded is that of the rose "Veilchenblau", which appeared to develop less blue-red flowers in the very dry 1934 season than normally. The bluer petals were separated and found to contain complex as well as normal 3-5-dimonoside, while the redder petals contained less of the complex pigment. It is possible that acylation is an important stage in pigment metabolism.
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Added. Thank you Karl.
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I think souvenir de brod is synonymous with errinerung an brod.
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#1 of 1 posted
28 APR 15 by
 Jay-Jay
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Yes, You're right it is indeed. And that synonym can be found in the description of 'Erinnerung an Brod'
...or when You type in the searchfield (at search / lookup) Souvenir de Brod => 'Erinnerung an Brod' is given as synonym.
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Everybody's Magazine 24: 746-757 (1911)
The Quest of the Perfect Rose
Franklin Clarkin
"Veilchenblau," wrote Herr Schmidt, "is a direct seedling of the 'Crimson Rambler,' not cultivated by fructification with another kind. By culture of several years, the new kind has rested constant. There have been no dosings with chemicals. The flowers appear in large umbels, are semi-double, and of medium size; when opening, partly reddish lilac; partly rose lilac, changing to amethyst, and, when fading, steel-blue; the general impression is that of the March violet. The color changes according to the place and soil. It has a substantial growth, pleasant tea scent, bright green foliage, and few but sharp thorns; up to the present it never has been attacked by mildew, and is one of the hardiest climbers. Trials of crossing with sorts apt for this purpose will be made; and probably we shall soon be able to greet the much-longed-for cornflower-blue rose."
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#1 of 4 posted
20 JAN 14 by
Jay-Jay
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Thank You Cyberrose!
So there is some confusion!
HMF states like the "Rosenlexikon" as lineage: seedling of Crimson Rambler × Erinnerung an Brod
References at Veilchenblau, for instance "Roses et Jardins", "Modern Roses 10", "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Roses" and "The Complete Book of Roses (Krüssmann 1981)" state:
'Veilchenblau', Syn. 'Bleu Violet', 'Violet Blue', 'Blue Rambler', 'Blue Rosalie'. Hybrid multiflora. (Descends from 'Crimson Rambler' x 'Souvenir de Brod').
The latter references do in fact not contradict Your reference...
But "me myself" intuïtively doubt whether the last lineage is right, until DNA research is clearing this matter.
Who else might shine his or her light on this interesting matter?
When Erinnerung an Brod wouldn't be a parent of Veilchenblau... that would mean there are just 5 unique descendants known of Erinnerung an Brod! And it has so much potential!
...See Erinnerung an Brod x Belle Siebrecht!!!
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#2 of 4 posted
21 JAN 14 by
jedmar
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The first reference to Erinnerung an Brod as pollen parent is by Jäger, who was usually well informed, but we do not know (yet) his source. The comment by Schmidt is a bit strange: " a direct seedling of the 'Crimson Rambler', not cultivated by fructification with another kind.". Did he mean, that it is a chance seedling, and not the result of a planned cross? Or a selfing? I would question the latter assumption.
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#4 of 4 posted
22 JAN 14 by
CybeRose
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My guess is that Schmidt meant OP. Did he have E an B at the time?
I have only seen Crimson Rambler trained on a fence at Santa Clara, CA. It mildewed badly there, but so did other ramblers/climbers that are usually healthy.
I have seen Veilchenblau in several places, always in the open where mildew would be less of a problem.
It would be interesting to have the two varieties growing side-by-side to see whether CR is likely to have been the sole parent of V.
Karl
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#3 of 4 posted
22 JAN 14 by
CybeRose
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Lord Penzance (1896) did some work with Erinnerung an Brod:
"Then for the blue Rose I collected the pollen of a Hungarian Rose, Erinnerung an Brod by name. The tints of this Rose are more distinctly blue, in parts, and at times, than those of any Rose that I have met with.
"I have had no difficulty in obtaining plants from the pollen of this Rose with several of the Hybrid Perpetuals, and have a number of them now. But none have yet bloomed; and I cannot trace, in the growth or foliage, any distinct evidence that the qualities of pollen parent are represented in the progeny."
I don't know whether any "blue" roses turned up among those seedlings, or what became of his collection after his death.
Karl
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Available from - Annie's Annuals and Perennials
www.anniesannuals.com / Annie's Annuals & Perennials 801 Chesley Ave. Richmond, CA 94801-2135
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