PhotoComments & Questions 
Double Delight  rose photo courtesy of member lurkling
Discussion id : 92-551
most recent 9 MAY 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 5 MAY 16 by LaurelZ
I would not add lime to roses. Its hydrangea flowers that flower change due to adding lime or acid. But, lime increases alkalinity which will bring you ph up to a high level. A ph above 7 is harmful or fatal.
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Reply #1 of 6 posted 6 MAY 16 by Patricia Routley
Perhaps I would not add builder's lime, or ground limestone to a rose bed, but if there are acid conditions, then play it safe and add alkalinity in the form of Dolomite, perhaps.

Maureen Ross, (Ross Roses, South Australia) writing in the “Australian Rose Annual” 1998, p111 said Adelaide is 7.5 to 9.5 pH and they grow some of the finest roses in Adelaide in all of Australia. I know I have read of Meilland on the Cap d’Antibes, and Pedro Dot in Spain both had very alkaline soils.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 8 MAY 16 by Give me caffeine
Wouldn't the preferred degree alkalinity be dependent upon the rootstock? As I understand it, variations in pH affect uptake of nutrients via the roots. Once a nutrient is already inside the plant it shouldn't matter.

So on that basis I'd expect the pH should ideally be tailored to whatever the rootstock prefers. This should be a known quantity for any of the usual rootstocks. Does anyone have some figures handy?
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 8 MAY 16 by LaurelZ
In fact, most plants dislike alkaline soil, in fact, I once did a search to try to find one garden plant that liked alkaline and I could not find even one plant. It is very unusual for garden soil to be too acid. The ph is based on the bedrock upon which the garden soil is located, unless one trucked in all new soil and put it on top. Most tap water is also alkaline so when you water with a hose you are increasing alkaline conditions. Some people try to off set by adding vinegar to the water for example or coffee grounds in compost or just coffee can be added to the water. When the soil is too alkaline the plants stop being able to take up things like iron and calcium and the solution is not to add calcium but to lower to the ph. I am positive that rootstocks don't vary in what like of ph they like. They are all the same type of plant, so they all want the same ph which would be between 6 and 6.5. Blueberries like a ph of 5, but there is nothing that likes a ph of 7 or above. Some plants are forgiving of it. The healthiest roses and the best looking flowers come from a good ph. I have been composting with coffee grounds for years and the improvements they make to plants so vast. I have not done cactus gardening for example, maybe they like a higher ph because they are in the desert and there is sand. In general plants like what they would get under natural conditions. One would probably want to go back to the first roses and see what kind of conditions they would thrive under. Chemical fertilizers can raise ph. Most people use them at some point. Its always a battle to keep ph down when gardening. Acid soil may possibly be found in mountain areas in which there are pine forests, and it is caused by the bedrock and not the pine trees. I would still never add lime to any garden plant. If you look at even the hydrangea, when you add lime to turn the flowers pink or red the over all health suffers. I even use a mop head hydrangea of neutral colors to judge soil ph. I see what the flowers look like. You can use a soil meter or an acid test kit to check the soil ph. If you ask a question on the soil forum on the garden web, there are a lot people who will want to help answer any ph questions better then I can. This is just what I kind of picked up from hanging out on the soil forum for years. Soil is my the one thing I like even more then roses. I feel I can always put a new rose, but the soil of your garden is the backbone of your garden. Compost can lower ph, but if have to be careful that the compost is not made of city wastes that can high ph or an unknown one. I only buy compost type products in a bag so I can read see what is in there. I would never add city compost from a truck or unknown source. If I buy a bag of redwood compost for example I can see what is in there, the bags says there is redwood in the bad and not mushroom compost that can be high in ph. Also manures are high in ph. There are lots of things to think and learn about.
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 9 MAY 16 by Give me caffeine
It's common for garden soils where I live to be quite acidic. A pH of 5.5 for native soil (basically, volcanic clay) is not uncommon even on hills, and the alluvial flats commonly suffer from acid sulphate subsoils too, which can have an extremely low pH.

Tap water around here is usually rain water (very slightly acidic) or bore water (can be anything) except in the actual towns.

"I am positive that rootstocks don't vary in what like of ph they like. They are all the same type of plant, so they all want the same ph which would be between 6 and 6.5."

Then you'd have to explain why some of the best roses are apparently grown in alkaline soil. You may also want to read Reply #1 of Discussion id 52-806 here:

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.4683.0&tab=32

The pH of manures varies depending on the manure. Cow and horse manure are slightly acidic.
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 9 MAY 16 by Margaret Furness
Roses on the alkaline Adelaide plains are generally on Dr Huey.
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 9 MAY 16 by Give me caffeine
I actually have a Dr Huey at my place, in the local acidic clay. It's an old rootstock that was there before I was, but it's impossible to kill. I've even cut the stems short and put straight glyphosate on them. It's still alive and seems perfectly healthy. Doesn't even get blackspot when the other roses do. Go figure.
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