PhotoComments & Questions 
Niphetos  rose photo courtesy of member SteffenAlbrecht
Discussion id : 78-472
most recent 26 MAY 14 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 24 MAY 14 by Margaret Furness
Most, perhaps all, of the roses labelled Niphetos in Australia are Mrs Herbert Stevens. Would you be so kind as to post ID-type photos of your plant - overall view of the bush, foliage, side view of a bud, side view of a stem showing prickles, hips if any?
Thank you.
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 24 MAY 14 by SteffenAlbrecht
It's a very small, potted plant, and this is literally only its second flower ever. I don't know if it's helpful, but I'll do some pictures as you suggest. Although I must say I'd be quite vexed if this, too, turned out to be something else than I paid for, after my Irene Watts that most likely is a Pink Gruss an Aachen.

Oh, and I live in Germany, not Australia ...
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 24 MAY 14 by SteffenAlbrecht
I hope this does the trick!
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 25 MAY 14 by Margaret Furness
Thank you for those! Yes I saw that you live in Germany, so I was hoping that your Niphetos might be correct. It's useful to us to have ID-type pictures to compare with what we are given as Niphetos (I've received three different roses under that name).
We don't have a true Irene Watts here either, at least not under that name. Ours are either Pink Gruss an Aachen or identical with "Agnes Smith", which may have been used as an understock.
Best wishes,
Margaret
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 25 MAY 14 by SteffenAlbrecht
Happy to help. So what do you think, is mine the real one?
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 25 MAY 14 by SteffenAlbrecht
Happy to help. So what do you think, is mine the real one?
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 26 MAY 14 by Margaret Furness
I'm not expert enough to answer that, but I'll ask those who are.
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 26 MAY 14 by billy teabag
Could you keep an eye on the prickles as it becomes more established?

'Mrs Herbert Stevens' shares many of the traits described by early growers of 'Niphetos' - the light green foliage, the bloom colour, the longer outer petals with shorter inner petals that look crumpled in the fully open bloom, the glandular pedicels.

'Niphetos' was described as having quite hooked prickles - 'much recurved and very thick'.
'Mrs Herbert Stevens' has prickles that are definitely decending but only slightly hooked.

'Mrs Herbert Stevens' begins as a long and very beautiful, tapered bud - the promise of a perfect, high-centred, spiral form rose as it begins to open, and then the outer petals open out to reveal a hollow ball of shorter petals in the centre of the bloom. The fully-open bloom is quite loose and informal. It is not a very full bloom. Another characteristic to watch for as the plant becomes older is the colour of the old wood. I'm not sure whether you would get the chance to see this in your climate but in warmer climates, the old wood of 'Mrs Herbert Stevens' is an interesting brown colour - quite unusual.
'Niphetos' was described as having a full bloom, though we know that petal number in Tea roses is a very variable thing, depending on temperature and other conditions. If you have a look at the old paintings of Niphetos in 'Photos' here you can see a range of form.
I don't know whether there is an authentic 'Niphetos' in commerce anywhere - one that has an indisputable link with the name. So many old roses in commerce are re-identified foundlings and a number of different white foundlings have been re-christened 'Niphetos' and found their way back into nursery lists.

As Margaret said, here in Australia we generally end up with the shrub form of 'Mrs Herbert Stevens' when we purchase roses named 'Niphetos', and we have seen the same error in other parts of the world although there are a number of other white roses being sold under the name 'Niphetos' too.

Not very helpful, I'm sorry, but perhaps you could post additional photos of your rose as it becomes more established, and anything you can find out about the provenance of your rose could provide very valuable information.
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 26 MAY 14 by Margaret Furness
One more comment; Pink Gruss an Aachen is a very fine rose, and so is Mrs Herbert Stevens. If you got a wrong rose for one or both of yours, you still got lovely roses!
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