Plant and gardening discussions, questions and comments

	Site Changes		Photos		Plant Introductions		Reviews & Comments		Member Journals		Plants		Plant References

Recent Member Comments, Questions and Answers

RoseCanadian Sunset most recent 4 days ago SHOW ALL

Initial post 7 OCT 19 by odinthor

Reply #1 of 14 posted 8 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Most breeders nowadays introduce a rose under different trade names in different countries. Apparently, 'Spirit of Ocean City' would not have sold as well in Canada as 'Canadian Sunset'.	REPLY

Reply #2 of 14 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor

But surely the original introduction name has priority; and I note in these HMF comments that the breeder himself continues calling it 'Spirit of Ocean City'. Just within the last week I was reading comments in the American Rose Annual--J. Horace McFarland was writing, I believe--lamenting the re-naming of already-introduced roses (thus, 'Joseph Guy', not 'Lafayette'). And here we are, so many years later . . .

Reply #3 of 14 posted 9 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

I am not sure I understand the point. The synonyms are not prioritised. If you search for 'Spirit of Ocean City' that name will be shown at the top and in your comments.	REPLY

Reply #4 of 14 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor

Primarily, I'm just expressing general dismay that roses which already have one name are given another (not lodging a complaint about HMF). Not everyone understands that the concept of "synonyms" is a bit different in biological nomenclature (in which names have, or don't have, priority) than it is in general word usage and lexicography (in which all true synonyms are more or less of equal merit), and consequently some will think that it's as proper to use a name with less priority as it is to use one with greater priority, or don't concern themselves with making a distinction.

Reply #5 of 14 posted 9 OCT 19 by Marlorena

...this has been going on forever hasn't it? I don't like it either, I wish they would keep their original names, but lots of roses introduced here in England have gone through an unfortunate name change... e.g. Julia Child = Absolutely Fabulous... and your 'Fourth of July' is 'Crazy For You' over here.... which I think is rather funny considering the history...	REPLY

Reply #8 of 14 posted 10 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

Nastarana

I don't like it either but it is not illegal. The late John Clements was notorious for the practice. And, there are gardeners who simply will not buy any plant which has what they consider a stuck up fancy pants name. And then the adorable chipmunks and rainbows crowd wants sentimental names, the stickier and ickier the better, it seems to me. I gather that breeders working for companies like pre-bankruptcy J&P had no control over which rose would be introduced nor over names.

Reply #10 of 14 posted 11 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

Reply #11 of 14 posted 1 APR 21 by HMF supporting member

Michael Garhart

Reply #12 of 14 posted 5 days ago by HMF supporting member

MiGreenThumb

Nastarana, your statement demonstrates exactly why the names shouldn't be changed for different locales.
You will NEVER please everybody, nor should you try.
Usually those demanding a change have consciously decided to be offended by an imaginary problem.
Take a grand, well-known historical rose like 'Gloire de Dijon'. Should it have ever been called 'Moopsie Boopsie' or whatever else the la la land people want? Absolutely not.

Reply #6 of 14 posted 9 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

jedmar

I personally don't like it either, however it seems now standard marketing practice to have different names for the same rose in different markets. Another unfortunate practice from the point of view of the gardener is the recycling of names. The known "brand" is thus passed on to a new rose which has another 20 years of patent protection. There is a lot of effort on our side to try to bring some light into this jungle. Some nursery companies have now stopped publishing the unique breeder codes of their novelties, probably to make it more difficult to assign the synonyms. This is short-sighted.

Reply #7 of 14 posted 10 OCT 19 by HMF supporting member

Margaret Furness

Reply #9 of 14 posted 10 OCT 19 by Marlorena

Some German names are problematic for us in England...so it isn't surprising they get changed really... I mean I can't imagine anyone here picking up a rose named 'Herz Ass' [Tantau rose]….unless as some kind of a joke... I might though, as I would 'Mainzer Fastnacht'...but most would be put off by that I think, but change it to 'Blue Moon' and it's been a winner for decades...	REPLY

Reply #13 of 14 posted 5 days ago by HMF supporting member

MiGreenThumb

Marlorena, I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, shouldn't people be celebrating other nations' cultures, languages, and traditions? I hear so often about these kinds of things, but it seems like it only goes one way.	REPLY

Reply #14 of 14 posted 4 days ago by Marlorena

Idealogically yes, but if I was in the business of selling roses to my local demographic and to maximise profit, no. There's a lovely purple rose sold in Europe as 'Weg der Sinne'. I'm not sure I'd have bought it under that name, I might, but change to 'Pacific Crest' and it sold me on sight. Even in the anglosphere, names are becoming more trivialised or overly sentimental, neither of which appeals to me.

Last year Harkness introduced 2 beautiful pink roses with many good attributes, one called 'The Menopause Charity' rose. It's not listed here although I might put in a request. Mixed opinions about the name, personally I wouldn't want to be reminded and not sure why it needs a charity. Another called 'The Elton John AIDS Foundation'.. Well meaning, yes, but they don't give me the 'feel good' factor if I'm honest.

Another of their new releases is called 'RazzleBEEdazzle'.. Would I buy that? no. A bit snobbish? probably.

PhotoVerschuren Sr. (1844-1918), Hendrikus "Hens" A. most recent 4 days ago HIDE POSTS

Initial post 4 days ago by 1923

Book: A family history in roses . auteur: Jacques Verschuren (347 pag.)	REPLY

RoseQueen of Sweden most recent 5 days ago HIDE POSTS

Initial post 5 days ago by Umang

This rose does not work for many people I know in my country India. This rose does not grow or flower much even after a few years of waiting. Own root. Other roses thrive next to it but this rose does not work. Location: Nadiad, Gujarat, India.	REPLY

RoseMademoiselle Meilland ® most recent 5 days ago HIDE POSTS

Initial post 5 days ago by Umang

In my weather: Repeats fast. Great Vigour. No thrip damage. Good footage health - no black spot. Location: Nadiad, Gujarat, India.	REPLY