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'Magnolia Rose' Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 128-193
most recent 21 JUN 21 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 19 JUN 21 by Hamanasu
I tried this rose three times. The first was an own-root plant of the bush. I was warned that it would be weak and take ages to mature (previous comments on HMF make this amply clear). After several years I gave up -- if in countries with decent sunshine it take 8 years for Devoniensis (bush) to come into its own, I figured life is too short to wait for the decades it might take in England. So the next attempt was with the climber. Again, the literature warned me, this time of the opposite problem (which I guess is only really a problem in a small (35sqm) container garden such as mine): the climber would be excessively vigorous. It was, even confined in a pot, and put most of its energy into throwing up canes rather than producing blooms. The canes also tended to blackspot badly and die back, so every year the plant expended energy in rebuilding itself with less than impressive flower displays. So the climber also went after a few years... Then, last year, I got a grafted plant of the bush, and a few short months later it is growing healthy and flowering well. I love the scent and look of Devoniensis and I'm glad I got a version of it that works in my climatic and growing conditions. I got my grafted plant from Loubert in France, right before legal changes came into effect (following from the Brexit vote) that made it completely impractical for private individuals in England to acquire plants from Europe.
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Marlorena
I have clg Devoniensis, grafted... I've grown it before grafted too... it doesn't flower much in the first year, the first bloom I got from the first time I had this rose was on 30th July.. the one I have now in this garden has not bloomed yet, so maybe end of July I might get the first flower.. it's very vigorous after a slow start, and healthy..
I've never had the bush form...
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Hamanasu
I think my problem with the climber, in addition to the blackspot -- or whatever disease it was that caused blackish/purplish blotches and dieback on the canes -- was my trying to grow it in a container, and having to prune it so that it would fit the space available. I think these two things combined set the plant back every year, not really giving it a chance to feel that it could afford putting energy into blooms rather than new cane growth. But I'm sure that if you can let it grow rampant (as it seems to want to) in a good ventilated place in the garden, after a few years you'll have a spectacular plant!
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Marlorena
Yes, I wouldn't consider it suitable for a pot at all... you're better off with the bush form.. we don't see that one here nowadays. It's nice to have an historic rose in the garden..
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Hamanasu
Marlorena, when the plant is larger I can share wood if you are keen to have the bush form (though the bush is hopeless on its own roots; a much better candidate for budding/grafting, if you know how to -- I never tried either myself).
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 21 JUN 21 by Marlorena
Hamanasu... thanks for your kind offer of an own root Devoniensis... I think I should pass on that one though, it appears to take too long to become anything.. if I was 20 years younger I'd probably go for it although I imagine it might do better if greenhouse grown..
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Mila & Jul
...mine is also a grafted bush version from Loubert. I grow it in the garden, here south of Stuttgart. It suffers a lot from the spring freezes and then puts too much/too early energy in the blooms... interestingly, it manages every year a "come-back" - this time after going through -20'C in spring
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Hamanasu
Wow, -20! I didn't think teas (even grafted teas) could manage that!
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 20 JUN 21 by Mila & Jul
I have 2-3 dozen teas/noisettes in my garden (southern facing slope)...in my experience, teas can endure lower temperatures than one would expect. It seems that protection from sunlight/dryness due to wind exposure is more important to get them over the winter. Actually, many of them can deal better than many HTs with the nowadays drier summers, which is increasingly an issue here in Southern Germany. (I have lots of old fruit trees dying and problems establishing new ones if there is no water access) I guess the biggest temperature challenge is the up/down of our local climate, which results in too early shoots. With the climate changing, I am trying out new varieties every year - and also have many setbacks... Btw, in Sangerhausen, they also have several teas - and the climate there is even colder. I think they saw up to -25'C this spring.
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Discussion id : 36-841
most recent 19 JUN 21 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 1 JUN 09 by Patricia Routley
I have a bush 'Devoniensis' on its own roots from Zephyr Brook Heritage Rose Garden 7-48 in Pinjarra, WA, taken as a cutting in 2000.

Two metres to the west I have another bush which eventually turned out to be the bush 'Devoniensis' from Hill Farm, given to me in 2004 by Natalee Kuser and which is on Fortuniana rootstock. Both these roses are about knee height.

'Climbing Devoniensis' which I found in Dave Fowler's garden in Yornup is a further three metres on to the west.

I cannot understand Helpmefind's notation of "thornless - or almost" for the bush 'Devoniensis' (unless my two bushes are incorrectly named). If the true 'Devoniensis' bush was thornless (and the first reference to refer to it as "few prickles" was in 1936 - 98 years after its birth), how on earth did a thornless tea rose produce such a thorny rigid climber. In both my bushes and the climber these are strong thorns, almost welded to the canes, but so much more evident in the climber.

Wandering (or wondering) on - how did a very slow-to-take-off (a decade?) bush sport a climber which almost leaps out of the ground.

(I think the HMF height for the bush needs adjusting as it the same 10' to 12' as shown for the climber.)
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Reply #1 of 5 posted 1 JUN 09 by jedmar
I think we can disregard the "few prickles". This description refers to a plant in Sangerhausen in 1936, which is no longer there. Both of the older drawings of Devoniensis show hooked prickles.

Where I am uncertain is whether Devoniensis Clg. is really a sport of Devoniensis. The bloom colour is just not the same. Are we sure we have the same Devoniensis all over the world? Maybe we could have some other details posted for both for comparison.
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Reply #2 of 5 posted 1 JUN 09 by billy teabag
The climbing form of 'Devoniensis' is identical to the shrub in all but vigour and habit, so it sounds as though there might be more than one rose going under the name 'Devoniensis'. That said, it's worth keeping an eye on the suspect rose for a few years. Leaving aside the blooms, how does it compare, feature by feature, with the climbing form?

The blooms of 'Devoniensis' do vary in fullness from season to season, but both shrub and climber have blooms that go through the same range of form and colour, and they have the same leaves and purplish-red new growth and glandular pedicels. The portrait in Henry Curtis' 'Beauties of the Rose' is a pretty good likeness and captures the posture of the buds very well.
Right from the start, the climber has impressive prickles that are - as Patricia noted - so hard to dislodge they seem to be welded to the stems. For us, the shrub had less prickles when young but as the plant aged it became pricklier.

I've found the shrub form to be very slow to establish. The plant in our garden grew so slowly for its first eight years that I worried about its constitution. In its early years it made a sparse, awkward plant, barely 3' (approx 1 metre) high and didn't put much new wood on each year. It was definitely the runt of the Teas here. Despite that, it still produced intermittent crops of gorgeous blooms from that scrawny frame.
After its eighth year it seemed to change gear and began to grow much more strongly and now it takes conscientious picking and trimming to keep it to reasonable bounds. It's one of the healthiest roses in the garden and repeats its bloom so quickly that it's rarely without a crop of buds and flowers.

Impressively large old Devoniensis 'trees' (like the one in Jeri's picture) are seen in old gardens and cemeteries and there's been some speculation re whether they can possibly be the shrub form or whether the forms in commerce have lost vigour. Watching our shrub over 15 years, I don't think it's a case of diminishing vigour - just that the shrub form of 'Devoniensis' has an especially long childhood and adolescence and if you're prepared to wait for a decade (in the right climate), the mature shrub is really something special.

2 photos attached - all blooms are from the same plant - shrub form of Devoniensis.
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Reply #3 of 5 posted 21 OCT 19 by scvirginia
I am only now seeing your pertinent question now about whether all plants of 'Devoniensis' are the same worldwide. There was some discussion on the Antique Roses forum about 4-5 years ago about this question, and I don't know if anything was decided for certain, but it does seem possible that there may be two different roses being sold in the U.S. as 'Devoniensis'.

I don't think it's possible to read the entire thread without being a Houzz member (which I no longer am), but parts are visible: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/1568872/why-is-devoniensis-not-more-popular

Both roses have similarly colored flowers (cream with yellow and pink shadings), dark green foliage, and reddish/ purplish canes/ new growth. One rose has larger leaflets, and looks more tea-like, and the other has smaller, glossier leaflets, and seemed HT-like. I believe that they are both very fragrant.

I doubt anything was proven decisively, and i is possible that there is only one clone that grows differently in different conditions. Even if there are two different roses, I'm guessing they have enough in common that someone could grow both, and not think to compare them closely.

If there really are two different 'Devoniensis' roses being sold in the U.S., I wonder if that error could have occurred in other countries also via imports from North America or independently. Devoniensis was introduced almost 200 years ago, so that's plenty of time for more than one "confused in commerce" situation.

Virginia
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Reply #4 of 5 posted 22 OCT 19 by jedmar
In Europe, 'Devoniensis Clg' is often 'Souvenir de la Malmaison Clg'.
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Reply #5 of 5 posted 19 JUN 21 by Hamanasu
Over the years, I have had a Devoniensis (bush) from La Roseraie Du Desert, a climber from Trevor White Roses, and another bush from Loubert. Except for vigour, I have never noticed any difference. The blooms and scent were the same on all plants. But it's true that I have seen some pics in other European nurseries' catalogues that look suspiciously like SdM.
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Discussion id : 81-912
most recent 18 JUL 18 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 30 NOV 14 by Tearose
I just noticed that some of these photos are of "Jesse Hildreth", taken in a cemetery (San Juan Bautista) that we used to think was Devoniensis until they were grown next to each other. The pictures were taken by Jeri Jennings, and one by Masha, and should be moved to the JH page.
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 9 DEC 14 by Patricia Routley
I don't think anyone has yet done this. Are the photos that need moving out of the 'Devoniensis' page and into the "Jesse Hildreth" page those from Jeri (57451 and 57452); and from Masha (170415 and 170416)?
It might also be clearer if Masha and Jeri recaption their photos by going into Edit.
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 16 JUL 18 by Linda Perry
Just noticed that these “Jessie Hildreth” photos (very lovely photos) are still posted here as ‘Devoniensis’ examples. May I help contact the original posters or in any other way?
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 17 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
You certainly can please Linda. I am sure Masha and Jeri would know of our query, but I am also sure that things slip between the floorboards in our busy lives. However, by leaving them in the 'Devoniensis' file, there is the implication that they think that the rose could be 'Devoniensis' - although - there is the Note in the "Jesse Hildreth" page that it appears to be different to that variety.
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 18 JUL 18 by Patricia Routley
I understand that people were having difficulty in reassigning or deleting these photos. So I have reassigned some "Jesse Hildreth" photos out of 'Devoniensis" and into "Jesse Hildreth". I have also deleted one of Jeri's close-up photo of the blooms as it was appearing in both files. I don't think....[?] there are any of "Jesse Hildreth" left in the 'Devoniensis' file now. We are always happy to help if members are having difficulties.
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Discussion id : 93-176
most recent 4 JUN 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 4 JUN 16 by drogers
In Vintage Gardens Book of Roses the variety Tradd Street Yellow is given the identity of Devoniensis, Cl.
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