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'Peace' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 82-668
most recent 18 APR 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 24 JAN 15 by Give me caffeine
I've long had a particular soft spot for this rose. Which started before I even knew what it was. Well ok, I knew it was rose, just not what sort.

Several decades ago when I were a lad, I was living in a small shack out in the bush. Someone had planted a 'Peace' there years before I arrived, and it had apparently been left to its own devices ever since. It was planted in the typical local soil, which was volcanic with a high clay content, a bit on the acidic side (pH around 6 is common). As far as I know it had never been pruned, sprayed or fed, and had relied entirely on rain for water. This diligent regime of care continued while I was in residence.

The bush was located at the edge of the cutting that had been made into the east-facing hill side, to allow building of the shack. Due to the elevation the eastern horizon was about 50 kilometres (30 miles) out to sea, so 'Peace' started getting full sun very early in the morning. The sun went behind the hill around 3pm in summer, giving a full 8 hours or so most days. Air circulation was excellent. Nothing of note was planted around it, and the prevailing winds for most of the year vary between north-easterly and south-easterly (Australian east coast).

Despite having no care whatsoever, for years, in a sub-tropical climate, the bush was extravagantly healthy. This may well be due to the fact that there were no other roses for miles in any direction, meaning no reservoirs for common rose diseases. Whatever the reason, healthy it certainly was. It was a monster of huge, arching canes, easily eight feet high and ten feet across, with plentiful foliage. Whenever it felt like it, which was quite often, it would flower in typical 'Peace' fashion, covering itself in masses of the huge flowers you'd expect from this cultivar. It looked totally awesome, in the literal sense, and it was impossible not to love it.

So, decades later, I decided it was time to get one. I have seen comments, here and elsewhere, which say this cultivar is not what it once was and has lost a lot of its vigour. Fortunately, nobody seems to have told my one. So far it appears blissfully unaware that it should be a bit on the frail side.

I bought it from the local Mitre 10, as one of the common bare root roses they get in every autumn. It was promptly planted in a location that, as closely as possible here, matched that of the old monster 'Peace' from days of yore: as much sun as possible, for as long as possible, with good air movement and good drainage. This one also had the benefit of soil more suited to roses, as I did a bit of preparation in advance.

When planted it was what you expect from a hardware store bare root rose: decent root system, but not much up top. Six weeks later, after cheerfully throwing out some foliage on the way into the sub-tropical winter, it decided it was time to flower. I probably should have debudded it, since it was such a small bush and so newly planted, but there was only one bud and I was so amused to see it that I let it go. The result was a typical perfect 'Peace' flower of around 6 inches across. After this, the bush very sensibly decided to take a break for winter.

Now that we're into summer it appears to be establishing very nicely, and has been allowed to produce a few more flowers. There is some black spot on the new one at times, but not badly. I'll keep an eye on it and try some of the tips from the organic roses people.

I fully expect that, with time, it will match the old one. I intend to use the same pruning regime, as in not at all. Anything that gets in its way will have to move. I do notice that the text here says this cultivar does not like pruning, and based on what I know of it I would have to agree.
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Reply #1 of 21 posted 25 JAN 15 by billy teabag
That was a treat. Thank you! I love reading accounts like this. Besides your admiration and enthusiasm for your 'Peace' plants, I loved your illustration of how roses tell us what they want and what they need to thrive if we stop to notice - even if what they tell us is contradicted in our manuals.
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Reply #2 of 21 posted 25 JAN 15 by Give me caffeine
Glad you enjoyed it

Actually I was exaggerating slightly, in that I am going to prune it to some extent. This is just to remove any crossing canes while it is getting its final shape together. The current plan is to keep it debudded for the rest of the summer, to allow maximum structural growth while growing conditions as are optimal, then take out any crossing canes before next spring.

I haven't read this anywhere, but it just seems logical. There are a couple of bits I could take out right now, but they are producing useful photosynthesis for the bush, which should help it get a move on. This would be handy right at the moment, since a grasshopper or something munched half the foliage when I wasn't looking.

Incidentally, I thought your book on Tea roses was wonderful. I may develop an addiction to them.
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Reply #3 of 21 posted 2 FEB 15 by billy teabag
Thank you - I'll pass on your kind words to the others. Hope you do fall under their spell.
And yes! - win-win to have good healthy foliage. During summer they need to be able to shade their own stems from the sun. Sunburn on the main canes sets a rose back terribly.
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Reply #4 of 21 posted 15 APR 15 by Give me caffeine
Well, coming into autumn now and frankly the baby Peace is not looking that great. It's a bit sad and sorry, and I'm not sure what's up with it. It may just require more time to get established, but I'm already thinking of alternatives in case it goes belly up. There are so many wonderful plants that are as happy as Larry in this climate that I've come to expect results. If something won't thrive with little care after being given a good spot on good soil, I won't take much persuading to replace it. It's the sub-tropics, dammit. Plants should go extravagantly feral. I am not going to constantly spray the thing to keep it alive.

I'll give it a while longer and see how it goes. If it fails to perform I will probably replace it with a Pink Peace if I feel like continuing with a Meilland, since PP supposedly has very good disease resistance and scent, and looks like a party that is determined to happen.

If I don't feel like a Meilland in that location I may stick with the peaceful theme and throw in a Peace 1902. That old Tea is known to be bulletproof in this climate, as well as generally being a rather flash bit of kit.
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Reply #5 of 21 posted 15 APR 15 by Margaret Furness
Peace is said to be one of the roses weakened by over-propagation. If you can find a plant in an old garden, it might be worth trying to grow it from cuttings: http://www.heritage.rose.org.au/warm-weather-rose-propagation.html describes some options for propagating.
Peace 1902 will grow from cuttings too. Like its sport parent, it's a sprawling bush. Not much good as a cut flower but that doesn't worry me.
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Reply #6 of 21 posted 15 APR 15 by Give me caffeine
Now there's a thought. I'm currently living not that many miles from where the old monster Peace was growing. I wonder if it's still alive. It'd be very old now (probably around 50 years) but it was so gorgeous I can't imagine anyone getting rid of it. I may investigate.

If the 1902 Tea isn't much good as cut flowers I may save that for somewhere else in the garden. The Meilland Peace is close to the house, which means really it's an ideal spot for a bush which makes good cut flowers.
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Reply #7 of 21 posted 16 APR 15 by billy teabag
I hear good things about 'Spirit of Peace' too.
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Reply #8 of 21 posted 16 APR 15 by Give me caffeine
*goes to look*

Hmm. Which one, o Teabag of Great Eminence? The Warriner or the Meilland?

(And who thought it was a good idea to give them the same name anyway?)
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Reply #9 of 21 posted 16 APR 15 by billy teabag
Give me Caffeine - if I knew you better, I would quote you something out of 'The Castle'.
Was thinking of the Meilland one.
My parents grew it in their last garden, and my father included it in a garden of Peace-ish roses he planted and tended at their local cemetery. He thought very highly of it.
I thought it was pretty ho-hum when I first saw it as a young plant, but over the years it just seemed to go from strength to strength and I ended up being won over by it. A very good cut flower and quite gorgeous in its way. The colour understated but beautiful. The plants became robust and healthy as they settled in (in Cowell, South Australia).
Have meant to get hold of one and grow it here, but there are always Teas or other foundlings in the pot forest waiting to go into any spare spots.
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Reply #10 of 21 posted 16 APR 15 by billy teabag
Afterthought - having just trimmed up a number of very sad-looking roses and giving them a handful of food, I'm wondering if your 'Peace' would like a trim.
Now that the temps are a bit more civilised, In just a few weeks, those worrying roses have responded to the trim by covering themselves with healthy new growth and everyone's feeling happy again.
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Reply #11 of 21 posted 16 APR 15 by Give me caffeine
I must admit that, only judging by the pictures on this site, I also felt a bit underwhelmed by the look of the Meilland Spirit of Peace. I can sort of see the spirit, but it seems to lack the flair of the original. On the other hand, Pink Peace is not trying to be anything else and just looks like a huge barrel of fun. I'd need to see a good example of SoP for real before being convinced.

Honestly I'm rather scared to trim Baby Peace, but I suppose it can't do much harm. I did splurge on some proper rose compost and some lucerne mulch today. Actually the lucerne was horse food from the local town and country. The packaging assures me that it's full of quality protein and calcium, and contains 10Mj/kg of digestible energy. I'm not sure if it makes roses go faster, but ten million neddies can't be wrong. Baby Peace should be thrilled to bits. Since Baby Peace is currently falling to bits, thrilled to bits should not be a significant disadvantage. All the excitement will probably turn it into a bouncing baby or cause it to expire, which would provide a solution to the problem either way.

I'm rather taken with the idea of finding out if the old monster is still alive, and trying to get cuttings from it. Return of the Son of Monster Peace has a certain je ne sais quoi.
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Reply #12 of 21 posted 6 MAY 15 by Give me caffeine
This may be a temperature-related thing on my end too. Latest is that the rotten little mongrel is looking remarkably chirpy at the moment. Temperatures have eased off a bit over here now, and we had quite a lot of rain recently.

Rosa 'Ungrateful Runt' now has leaves on it. They're even looking healthy. This has only happened in the past week. Still has one or two old spotty leaves on it, but the new stuff is good so far.

This got me thinking. The old monster Peace got sun from very early in the morning, but the sun went behind the hill by 3pm even in summer. Obviously the first few hours of sun in the morning weren't accompanied by high temperatures either. Some people reckon Peace is sensitive to heat, so perhaps Rosa 'Drive Me Bonkers' would do better with some afternoon shade.

The other possibility is that I may have been under-watering it, although everything else around it, including the new Lincoln, has been fine. If it was water stressed that would make it more spotty and gangrenous. I may go a bit overkill on the water next summer and see what happens. The position is well-drained, so I'm unlikely to swamp it, and I can spare the water while things get established.

I suppose that if it managed to get through summer with barely any foliage, and still threw out a few flowers, it can't actually be all that decrepit. I'm giving it a stay of execution for now. I may move it though.
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Reply #13 of 21 posted 25 AUG 15 by Give me caffeine
Ok, so maybe 'Peace' does like the temperature to be a bit more civilised. Latest is that after I basically poked my tongue out at it and told it to go ahead and snuff it, see if I care, it's been happy as Larry all winter. It hasn't gone into dormancy this year and has been gradually putting out foliage, to the point where it's now covered in very healthy leaves. It's even been free of black spot, despite the Lincoln's nearby still getting a little bit here and there.

Currently it's budding up for a spring party and things are generally looking very promising. I just noticed a bit of black spot on a couple of the lower leaves this morning, so am going to go to the dark side and give it a bit of a spray. Not that I will keep anything that requires constant spraying, but if it will get its act together I'm ok with giving it a bit of assistance while it gets established.

Will be interesting to see how it goes over summer (famous last words).
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Reply #14 of 21 posted 21 FEB 16 by Give me caffeine
Ok, another update in the Idiot's Guide To Not Actually Killing Meilland's 'Peace'.

I've managed to get it looking healthy in summer temperatures and persistent winds. It was looking horrible again, and still isn't very big, but I now have a source of free manure. Having re-read some of the instructions that people who know what they're doing have written, I mulched 'Peace' with about 100mm (4") of neddy nuggets (that's horse manure to non-Australians) topped off with about 50mm (2") of lucerne. This was done two weeks ago.

Combined with a light trim to tidy things up, this mulch has resulted in a remarkable transformation. The bush is now looking as healthy in summer as it did last autumn. My tentative conclusion here is that 'Peace' is a rose that desperately needs cool roots.

I also suspect that 'Peace' is a fair bit thirstier than 'Mister Lincoln', which is growing next to it. I need to do more testing, but hopefully the well-insulated roots in combination with more water will enable 'Peace' to keep looking decent all year.

I also now have a salvia and a pentas planted near the Lincoln and the Peace. Apart from providing a bit of extra colour, these are good indicator plants. Both will wilt easily at the tops before the roses get stressed, and will bounce back quickly when watered. As long as I keep the salvia and the pentas looking chirpy, the roses should be fine for water.

I can also confirm something that I read online about horse manure: it does NOT need to be aged before being used as mulch. I would still age the bed before planting into soil that had manure mixed through it, but as a mulch on top of the soil it is fine to use horse manure straight out of the horse.

All plants in the relevant bed are doing very well, despite all being thickly mulched with fresh horse manure to within an inch or two of the stems. Just in case there might be some nitrogen drawdown due to straw and wood shavings in the manure, I did put a light scattering of pelletised chicken poop down first (about a handful every square metre, or every 10 square feet).

I also dusted the manure with wood ash after it was down, just because I had some sitting around and thought I might as well use it. The potassium content should be good for the plants, and some sources claimed that the horse manure benefits from something to balance its acidity (I don't know if this is true or not). Apparently dolomite is good if wood ash is not available.

Naturally all of this was heavily watered just after it was laid.
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Reply #15 of 21 posted 21 FEB 16 by Salix
Maybe you should start a journal :P

I remember back in the day, I had a Peace. It was healthy, grew well, and then it didn't. The blooms were not to my taste, big but scentless and with a delicate, average color. One day, The Black Spot came, and it grew backwards.
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Reply #17 of 21 posted 22 FEB 16 by Give me caffeine
Yeah Peace seems to be one of those love it or hate it roses. It does have a pleasant scent, just not very much of it. I like the colours when it's on form, but of course that's entirely subjective.

I'm still trying to get mine to grow frontwards. Since I'm smarter than the average pile of vegetation, most days at least, I figure I will win eventually.
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Reply #16 of 21 posted 22 FEB 16 by billy teabag
Lucky rose!
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Reply #18 of 21 posted 22 FEB 16 by Give me caffeine
Well with the horse poo being free there was no need to skimp. The lucerne wasn't free, but is decidedly better than looking at a vast expanse of horse poo. Also much nicer to walk or weed on lucerne, rather than on horse poo. Next time I'll probably use sugar cane mulch. It's a lot cheaper around here (middle of cane growing area).
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Reply #19 of 21 posted 22 FEB 16 by Raynyk
Thank you for your entertaining journal, please continue to inform us about your progress in managing Peace into growing frontwards :)
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Reply #20 of 21 posted 22 FEB 16 by Give me caffeine
Be careful what you wish for. :D
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Reply #21 of 21 posted 18 APR 16 by Give me caffeine
Since you asked for it :D here's Rosa 'Rotten Mongrel' in all its current glory. It's definitely growing frontwards now, courtesy of those hard-working horses, and is finally starting to look like a young 'Peace' should. Flowers are not quite to Peace's maximum possible size, but are up to a good 120 mm now.

Foliage is great. Was sprayed once a couple of weeks ago. I tend to just give them all* a squirt with triforine when it looks like a new wave of BS is starting up, just to take the edge off it, then leave them to fend for themselves until the next wave hits. IOW, they probably get a spray once every 1-2 months or so. This is about as much spraying as I'm prepared to do. Anything that can't survive on that regime can go ahead and die.

*Meaning Peace, and the two Lincolns, and the Soeur Emmanuelle.
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Discussion id : 19-224
most recent 23 FEB 16 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 2 JUN 07 by Unregistered Guest
I have never heard of the synonyms of 'Beke' and 'Fredsrosen' for 'Peace' before.
Does anybody know where they came from?
Patricia Routley
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 22 FEB 16 by Raynyk
Fredsrosen is Swedish, Norwegian and Danish and translates to The Peace Rose.

Béké or beke is a Creole term to describe a descendant of the early European, usually French, settlers in the French Antilles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9k%C3%A9
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 22 FEB 16 by Give me caffeine
Interesting. So does anyone know why that name would become associated with this rose? Offhand I can't see what the Antilles have to do with it.
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 22 FEB 16 by Patricia Routley
These names were shown as synonyms in the 2004 reference, The Joy of Roses, a book written by James Young in consultation with David Ruston. After my initial posting I travelled with David Ruston in Tasmania in November 2007 and asked him about the names. He admitted they (sorry, can’t recall) were a mistake. But it seems James didn’t quite make a mistake with ‘Fredsrosen’. Thank you Raynyk. These names have puzzled me for a few years.
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 23 FEB 16 by Raynyk
One can only guess, but Beke could refer to Mme. Meilland/Peace as to a french coming to the new world?

Glad I could be of help Patricia.
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Discussion id : 84-204
most recent 8 APR 15 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 8 APR 15 by Salix
Lovely blooms, sometimes exceeding 7in, vigorous but not winter hardy and very susceptible to BS.
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Discussion id : 81-050
most recent 13 OCT 14 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 13 OCT 14 by Kit
This fall's 'Peace' blossoms have an unusual amount of yellows and oranges, probably due to some odd weather.
re previous threads: My shrub doesn't seems to be inferior to any old ones I've seen, blossoms are big (to 6" - 15cm), bright and generally but somewhat fragrant, though an occasional one will be more so.
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