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Initial post 18 NOV by Margaret Furness
A couple of visiting rosarians from the US don't think "B L Sydney Linton" is Paul Neyron. Wrong colour, opens too flat. I note too that Paul Neyron has descendants as seed parent, but I haven't seen viable hips on my "B L S L".
Reply #1 of 6 posted 18 NOV by billy teabag
Then they are in accord with Hillary who has always dismissed PN as an identity.
Reply #2 of 6 posted 18 NOV by Patricia Routley
Has Hillary publicised her concerns? - I might have missed a reference.
Reply #3 of 6 posted 19 NOV by billy teabag
No - you haven't missed a reference Patricia. Hillary doesn't have a plant of "B.L. Sydney Linton" and I'm referring to informal conversations we've had standing next to my plant.
Reply #4 of 6 posted 19 NOV by Patricia Routley
Margaret – Seven seed descendants from 1869-2018. That is not a lot. I haven’t seen any hips at all (that I recall) on my HP’s. ‘Paul Neyron’ was mentioned as having a flat form in a 1936 reference.

Billy – thank you. My “Sydney Linton” died by 2015. I sent you up an own-root plant in Nov 5, 2004 and presumably this is the one you are now growing. My ‘Paul Neyron’ (currently quite sick) came from Zephyr Brook 1-5 and undoubtedly Hillary will know this rose well. In peak busy season here, I am most unwilling to relook at “Sydney Linton” as we discussed it ad infinitum in 2003-2006. It is probably not right that “Sydney Linton” and Paul Neyron’ are in the same file, but it would take a lot of untangling to separate them.
Reply #5 of 6 posted 19 NOV by billy teabag
Yes - you are right - The "B.L. Sydney Linton" growing here is the one you sent up (is it that long ago?)
HPs are not really happy here. I think they are more comfortable in places where they get at least a bit of frost in the winter and not so much heat in the summer, so it has always looked a bit tenuous. A very modest plant and the amount of spent wood equalling the amount of new wood each year. But when it blooms in a mild spring, it is a most lovely thing and I will always remember David Ruston's magnificent and deceptively simple arrangement of it in its home town at the Hay Conference in 2003.
'Dr Hogg' is the only other HP that has survived here. Even' Frau Karl Druschki' lost the will to keep trying last year.
Reply #6 of 6 posted today by petera
I grow both cultivars and BL Sydney Linton is a far superior garden rose to Paul Neyron. HPs tend to grow well in my climate (Mount Macedon Victoria). We have brutal frosts as you alluded to in an earlier posting but dry summers with cool nights.

BLSL has the normal complement of prickles while the stems of PN are almost unarmed. BLSL is MUCH more disease resistant while PN gets absolutely every rose disease known and probably measles, mumps and cat flu as well. BLSL is a better-formed, branching plant while PN is long and leggy with flimsy stems. My own-root BLSL also has a tendency to sucker but I have never observed PN to do that even though all my plants have had their bud unions well buried. BLSL repeats better but that may be due to its its much better health and vigour. I prune it to about 40 cm and it gets up to 1.5-2m in the season.

I know it would be work to separate the pages on HMF but listing BLSL incorrectly as a synonym of PN discourages people from growing it, and a really good HP is likely to get lost again.
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Initial post yesterday by Les Racines du Vent
According to Dominique Massad, Le Vésuve in commerce is actually Rosabelle (Bruant, 1899).
See in Bulletin n°25 Automne 2018, Roses Anciennes en France:

"L'ensemble de ces caractères me conduit à privilégier le nom de 'Rosabelle' pour cette variété commercialisée sous la dénomination erronée de 'Le Vésuve'."

He says that Le Vésuve in commerce doesn't ressemble a typical Bengal rose, at least what a Bengal rose would have been at the time (1825), but its habit is more one of a tea.

Any idea, comment, or personnal experience on that matter would be much appreciated!
Reply #1 of 2 posted today by Margaret Furness
The Tea book authors quote Steen (1966) and Robinson (2001) as questioning the ID of the rose in commerce by this name.
I note, though, that Rosabelle is a climber.
Reply #2 of 2 posted today by Les Racines du Vent
Very interesting!
Massad says that Le Vésuve grows up to 3m50, therefore somehow is a climber....
In my climate (zone 5) it is too cold for it to grow well, let alone climb so I cannot have an opinion on this matter.
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Initial post today by Cà Berta
Rose Listing Omission

Climbing Gotha

Catalogo F.lli Giacomasso 1940-41 page 20

Climbing Gotha – Forma rampicante della ben nota varietà robustissima; fiore giallo rossastro, profumato.

Translation: Climbing form of the well known very robust variety; reddish yellow flower, fragrant.
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Initial post 4 days ago by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I'm getting an error message when selecting for "parentage bloodline" with certain varieties, such as 'Watercolors Home Run'.

Thank you, Robert.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 4 days ago by Patricia Routley
Me too.
Admin, can you take a look please.
Reply #2 of 3 posted today by HMF Admin
Robert, there is a circular lineage reference we need to research and resolve. At issue are 'RAD95-1016.17' and 'Morning Magic' lineage
Reply #3 of 3 posted today by Robert Neil Rippetoe

There are others. I ran into a couple more awhile back. No doubt the same issues were at fault.

Thanks for your efforts. Robert
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