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'Everblooming Dr. W. Van Fleet' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 159-990
most recent 15 JAN HIDE POSTS
Initial post 14 JAN by ColleeninMhd
I am debating planting New Dawn in my zone 6 humid coastal Massachusetts garden. The area (my garage) faces east but my house obstructs it and shades it. The morning sun hits it up higher. Then around 1:00 it gets sun exposure until 5:00- from the South. The garage is white and pale yellow. I know a deeper pink would look best, but, I struggle to find one that checks all the boxes. I was hoping for a repeat bloomer. My kitchen window looks right at this area. I desire a hardy disease resistant (black spot can be a problem). I have grown honeysuckle and clematis for years in this area. They would have to all get along. Also, I have Earth Angel and Scepter Isle nearby, so I think New Dawn wouldn’t clash. Finally, there are deep blue hydrangeas and blueberries at the ground level. Kind of a New England cottage look. Do you think Nee Dawn is the way to go?
Reply #1 of 3 posted 14 JAN by Lee H.
You really can’t go wrong with New Dawn. I have them growing in several shaded and non-shaded Z6b areas, and they are pretty much unstoppable. Here’s the two on my garage, they get only about 5-6 hours direct sun.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 14 JAN by ColleeninMhd
Oh my goodness! Your roses are so beautiful and well trained! Thank you for sharing!
Reply #3 of 3 posted 15 JAN by Nastarana
Have you considered 'Parade'? It grows rapidly, with excellent repeat bloom. The color is a darker, brighter pink than ND.
Discussion id : 136-262
most recent 26 JAN 23 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 JAN 23
* Posted by unregistered site guest: Pending HMF administrative review. *
Discussion id : 112-615
most recent 11 DEC 22 SHOW ALL
Initial post 13 AUG 18 by happymaryellen
I planted my new dawn in March 2016. It has grown like crazy! Last year in spring I got a full flush of blooms. This year I got a full flush blooms in spring. But it doesn’t seem to continue blooming. I am deadheading it, and doing so properly down to five leaves. I also have gotten a Normas amount of growth coming off of it, it’s extremely leggy. So the question I have is, is it too soon for me to expect to bloom all season long?
It is extremely healthy and happy and green, almost no disease, just a little bit of mildew lately. I live in Northern California I am in 100% full sun, and I’ve been fertilizing every three weeks with Max sea 16 1616 Any thoughts?
Reply #1 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
I have only been getting a big spring flush also! I've had several people tell me that they might have reverted back to Dr. W. Van Fleet. But I have a total of 16 from two vendors so that seems like a lot to all revert back. I'm very curious to see if this fall will have any blooms from the second vendor's, which are younger.
Reply #2 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
There is usually a good spring flush here then another scat of flower from August into September. This year was unusually hot and dry and so far there have been no second flush although it has put on plenty of new growth. Maybe extra watering could be the answer.
Reply #3 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Marlorena
Tell me about it.... my history with this perplexing rose here in England goes back 20 years... I bought 2 in the 1990's, the first grew 20 foot with no rebloom... I then bought a 2nd rose during September one year, from a garden centre, where it was in bloom, so I knew I had the repeat type, but in the garden it once again grew 20 foot and didn't repeat... 10 years ago I bought yet another for my current garden, from Peter Beales… no rebloom... I met the late Mr Beales a year or so before he died and told him about it, that all these ND's seem to revert to Dr Van Fleet when you plant them... he couldn't understand it and offered to replace my rose, but I gave up by then, and I'm now finished with New Dawn...

I can only hope you get some rebloom at some point.. I found it too frustrating...
Reply #4 of 25 posted 14 AUG 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Isn't 'Dr. W. Van Fleet' larger flowering than 'New Dawn'? My plant is only 5 years old growing 4M up into a cut leaved elder tree. If they revert surely that would happen gradually, not the whole plant change at once?
Reply #6 of 25 posted 15 AUG 18 by Marlorena
I wouldn't know about that Andrew, as far as I know, if it's a once bloomer it's Van Fleet but if it repeats it's New Dawn... If one buys it as New Dawn, and if it's to do with time or watering, then how many years do you have to wait before it gets into a rebloom cycle? that's what I would like to know... to be honest, I probably didn't go beyond 3 seasons with any of mine... I felt that was long enough, and I only deadheaded... let's see if Lavender Lace's roses rebloom this year...
Reply #7 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Everything rebloomed immediately after all the rain a month ago but not a single bud on the New Dawns. We can have blooms to early December though so will report back if anything changes.
Reply #10 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Marlorena
Thanks for keeping in touch about this.... I feel I'm shouting through a loud hailer, but if there's anyone in the world out there, who has a New Dawn that repeats... please sign in and tell us about it, because I'm dying to know ….

I'm going to check out a couple I know of in my local area, and see what they're doing...
Reply #11 of 25 posted 13 SEP 18 by Margaret Furness
There are photos on the hmf file taken in September, October, November in the northern hemisphere; so their plants re-bloom. I donated mine elsewhere because it was so prickly, and I can't recall what it did. It's a survivor rose in our Mediterranean climate.
Reply #12 of 25 posted 13 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Yes Margaret it's certainly tough, I moved a fair sized plant a few years ago and never cut it back at all, planted it to grow in an elder tree, it didn't turn a hair just kept on growing. I used to get flowers in September but haven't for the last few years.
Some of the northern hemisphere pictures have been posted in the winter months, some members might not have posted them at the actual time of flowering.
Reply #13 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Hi Marlorena, assuming this is still of interest to you, I got a top-grafted weeping standard plant of New Dawn from Beales in 2014. I garden in containers on a patio and quickly realised it was not suitable (in fact, it was a hazard!) in that space. So after it bloomed I planted it in the ground, on an island that belongs to the river-side building where I live. The soil is poor, hard and gravelly; I never fed it and it was really planted too close to an ash tree. The stake also did not hold, so it spent much of its life on the island leaning on one side. I hardly ever watered it, pruned it, or dead-headed it. Mostly I forgot about it, being half hidden by the ash. In those conditions it never has spectacular blooming in spring/early summer, but it's always had some flowers in the autumn. Nothing to write home about, but still. My conclusion is either that top grafted specimens of New Dawn rebloom more readily, or that poor soil restrains green, vigorous growth, and encourages rebloom. I have just potted this up again and am training it over the arbour of a bench, as the flooding this winter washed the soil away and left it with almost entirely exposed roots and lying completely flat. We'll see what rebloom I'll get in the conditions (being positioned close to a north-facing wall, probably not much).
PS: I have just checked some past HMF comments on this rose and I gather that not deadheading might have helped with the second flush; this is because in wichurana roses 'new buds grow very closely behind the spent flowers', so one should be 'Careful not to prune off the not yet fully developed buds immediately behind the just bloomed flowers' when deadheading. This was advice from the now passed away owner of Azalea House Flowering Shrub Farm (NY).
Reply #14 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena
Hamanasu…. thanks for getting back about this.. always interesting to me... at least you know your rose reblooms somewhat.. and you've confirmed something to me that I noticed in 'Alexandre Girault'... I found that when I deadheaded it immediately after flowering and pruned it back, ready for next season, I did not get any rebloom whatsoever... one year I decided not to touch it after flowering, and it continued reblooming into autumn... not huge amounts but more than just sporadic.. the downside is that the plant looks a huge untidy mess...
So it seems you have confirmed, via the late owner of Azalea House, that it's best not to prune back the laterals too hard at midsummer... something that I was all too inclined to do...

This is good to know... thanks again Hamanasu… let us hope we have a good year for our roses... whatever happened to winter?...
Reply #15 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
To keep the plant in check and reduce the tangle (given that trimming off the laterals is not a good idea, as it prevents rebloom), the suggestion was to remove in the winter one or some of the older canes, close to the crown of the plant. I guess correct pruning can make a huge difference to rebloom in some varieties. I noticed that when I got a rebloom on Quatre Saisons, it's because I had pruned it back quite hard after flowering, so that I forced the buds that did not break in the spring (behind the ones that did break, further down the cane) to create new, blooming laterals. The problem is that if I subjected the plant to that treatment every year, eventually there'd be no plant left (as I don't get new strong basal canes every year); so I only do it intermittently, and must resign myself to missing the rebloom at least every other year.

The winter was such a wash-out here (Berkshire), and I can count on one hand the nights when it went below 0!
Reply #16 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by happymaryellen
I gave up and shovel pruned it
Reply #18 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Fair enough! I'm quite merciless with varieties that don't work for me (life is too short). :)
Reply #17 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
I don't prune my 'New Dawn' at all and just let it climb through a cut leaved elder tree and it has never re-flowered. A bush in my neighbours garden gets a rough haircut when I prune a 'Veilchenblau' for them in July and it always has flowers in September.
Reply #19 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Ha! Then I give up!
Reply #20 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena
...from Andrew's experience, it sounds like it needs deadheading but without cutting too much off... this rose has vexed me too long, perhaps it's one of those that has had its day in the sun... I prefer Ghislaine de Feligonde now because I can do whatever I like with it and it still reblooms..

..interesting about Quatre Saisons… they need getting to know don't they?... I wish I could give up... it would save me a fortune...
Reply #21 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
It is interesting what Hamanasu is saying because I think a lot of so called "'New Dawn'" it is really 'Dr W. Van Fleet'.
Reply #23 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Hamanasu
Marlorena, I sympathise about being unable to give up (in fact, only yesterday I ordered Blossomtime, one of New Dawn's children, except, to me, more beautiful)! All I'm giving up on is try to understand ND's reblooming habits, or lack thereof. Andrew, I'm sure you're right about Dr Van Fleet getting mixed up with New Dawn in nurseries.
Reply #24 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Marlorena of luck with Blossomtime... I don't know that one, but Awakening always looks nice in photos..
Reply #22 of 25 posted 26 JAN 20 by Andrew from Dolton
You get flushes of blooms from 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' right until you get a decent frost in cool wet conditions it does very well.
Reply #25 of 25 posted 11 DEC 22 by jac123
I don't think that if you had waited longer something would have changed. My new dawn rebloomed the first year as an own root plant and still does now (third year in the grownd). I do not deadhead it; it doesn't get water if it doesn't rain, i don't fertilize it and it grows in partial shade. I don't get a full fall flush, rather scattered blooms here and there, but it's still something. Right now, with night temperatures below 0°C, it still has some buds on (definitely not a show, just its way to say "Hey, I can rebloom if I want!")

Overall, though, I believe that even though New Dawn does have the ability to perform where many other varieties would not even survive, and it should be treasured for these conditions, it fails to perform up to modern standards when it gets all the best conditions. It performs basically the same way in the best soil and with the best care or in total neglect. If, as I suspect, your plants receive good care and your conditions are not extremely tough, I don't see why you should try again with it
Reply #5 of 25 posted 15 AUG 18 by Lavenderlace
My first ten grew to twenty feet extremely fast too, but has since slowed down. Andrew might have a good point about the extra watering as we are usually hot, humid, but quite dry. However, we just received seven inches of rain after our usual drought conditions. So hopefully that will be the push that it needs for a fall bloom!
Reply #8 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Andrew from Dolton
A plant growing in the village in a very dry position has put on hardly any growth and isn't re-flowering. My own 'New Dawn' put on a lot of new growth thanks to some irrigation during the hot dry summer, it shows no sign of re-flowering either. Others have had a good second flush, 'Rose de Rescht', 'Agnes', 'Jacques Cartier' and 'Quatre Saisons Blanc Mousseux' have all done well although 'Duchess of Portland' hasn't even tried. Others, Rosa cinnamomea Plena and the Dunwich Rosa are unexpectedly having another go.
Reply #9 of 25 posted 12 SEP 18 by Lavenderlace
Sounds like you have lots of blooms today also Andrew! I should have mentioned that I do irrigate, so it wasn't like mine were totally neglected to begin with. Though I do think that New Dawn can certainly tolerate neglect! Blooming seems to be another matter.
Discussion id : 133-278
most recent 12 JUN 22 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 12 JUN 22 by Puns 'n' Roses
New Dawn has been a success story for me.
Planted in a corner where she doesn't get much sun (well, nothing in my garden gets much sun!), she had to climb up the garage which she achieved in her first year. Once up, she now spreads vertically on top of the wall and the garage roof.
There is a huge hazel tree growing in the park next to the garage, and in the autumn the garage roof gets sprayed with both hazel nut clusters and leaves. When I don't sweep them off meticulously, they decompose quickly into some sort of topsoil, allowing both grass to grow and - more importantly - New Dawn's branches to form roots.
In spring, when pruning, I climb onto the garage, pull at New Dawn's branches, see where the roots have formed, cut the branch off and plant it into a pot. The loose nature of the "topsoil" makes removing the rooted branches super easy.
This way, I have been multiplying my New Dawn without any effort on my part, and clones of her are now growing relatively happily as part of a (future) rose hedge in my Eifel orchard - I say relatively happy because they are constantly threatened by voles, deer and harsh conditions. But they do establish themselves where lots of other roses fail.
If you want a robust and beautiful rose, have the space but not the time (with New Dawn, I only prune what's in the way and never dead-head) AND don't mind the vicious thorniness then New Dawn is for you.
PS: Veilchenblau which spreads on the same garage roof never forms roots.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 12 JUN 22 by Palustris
'New Dawn' is a great rose and a real survivor. Driving around town today, I noticed a big old bush of 'New Dawn' sort of abandoned at one end of a fence line. It was vigorous and flowering beautifully.
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