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'Ebb Tide ™' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 113-875
most recent 2 NOV 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 NOV 18 by Plazbo
Nice colour, nice fragrance, nice big clusters of blooms, somewhat fertile, some degree of shade tolerance (have had other plants die in shade, this one survived...but it was never at it's best in shade).

Blooms scorch terribly. Plant is kind of wimpy, it's just never been a vigorous grower for me, never wants to be a full bush covered in leaves, often have some canes looking good while the other half look bare.. Can experience leaf spotting.

The dark purple layer tends to pass on rarely. More often getting pinks and things with more red tones.

If not for the colour (there are alternatives but they also have faults) I probably wouldn't recommend this plant, especially not if you're a low maintenance gardener like myself.
Discussion id : 112-923
most recent 10 SEP 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 6 SEP 18 by Nola Z5a
Heirloom Roses website lists Ebb Tide as zone 5 (-20 to -10 degrees) and 4x4 for size.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 7 SEP 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Nola.
Reply #2 of 4 posted 10 SEP 18 by a_carl76
I believe a little caution is in order with this hardiness designation. While I do grow Ebb Tide here in Iowa (Zone 5) it is not winter hardy unless you make efforts to give it protection from the cold. Anything that is exposed in the winter will die back and even a little bit into the protection. Fortunately it is able to bounce back every year and once established will grow into a good size shrub.

I grow several rose varieties in pots that have even less hardiness (a few chinas and teas for example). If I left them exposed they would all be dead come spring. But since I bury the pots under a pile of leaves with a tarp covering, they make it through the winter with no kill. I still would not rate them as Zone 5 varieties.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 10 SEP 18 by Nastarana
Heirloom wants to sell roses, and I think their hardiness designations tend to be a bit optimistic. I am finding that not only is winter protection needed for most 20thC HTs and floribundas, but it is better to buy them grafted and plant with the bud union at least 4" deep.
Reply #4 of 4 posted 10 SEP 18 by Patricia Routley
Thank you a_carl76, and point taken Nastarana. I have changed the 5b back to 6b.
Discussion id : 40-539
most recent 28 APR 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 16 NOV 09 by John Moody
There are no descendants listed for ET here on HMF, but I read a comment by another rosarian that said that ET was producing good health in it's seedlings. But, I don't remember who it was or where. I am considering it for my floribunda breeding next Spring and would like any information I can get regarding experiences others have had using it in their hybridyzing. Can you tell me about it's pollen fertility, hip setting and seed germination, and it proclivity to pass on good quality to the offspring?
Reply #1 of 7 posted 7 FEB 17 by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
Twilight Zone is a descendant of Ebb Tide
Reply #2 of 7 posted 8 FEB 17 by Patricia Routley
I don't understand your comment. In 'Ebb Tide's LINEAGE / DESCENDANTS BY GENERATION there are 35 1st generation descendants.
Reply #3 of 7 posted 8 FEB 17 by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
Apologies. I guess I didn't understand the question
Reply #4 of 7 posted 8 FEB 17 by Jay-Jay
Patricia: Everettedl understood the question quite well, I assume, for...
John Moody wrote in his comment in 2009 (first in line of this thread), that there were no descendants listed for Ebb Tide on HMF.
(Maybe) in the meantime there are listed quite a few on HMF and is his comment history.
Reply #5 of 7 posted 10 FEB 17 by Patricia Routley
My question/comment really was to John.
Reply #6 of 7 posted 25 APR 17 by Plazbo
Your question to John was asked 7 years after he posted...things change in 7 years.
Reply #7 of 7 posted 28 APR 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
John Moody passed away a few years ago. A wonderful & kind man .. still remember his kind & honest posts in Rose forums.
Discussion id : 84-216
most recent 27 APR 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 APR 15 by Michael Garhart
I love this rose. I still own it, from the year it was introduced. Word to others: It will have low vigor the first year or two, but once it is established, it blooms 3 times per year, with huge sprays of purple. Blackspot has not been an issue, too. Its a good, easy, short floribunda, and its fragrant, too! Just be patient, for its roots to take a hold.
Reply #1 of 15 posted 11 APR 15 by Buggy
I totally agree with you! I have five of them myself, where I usually have no more than 2 of any type in my garden. Mine get BS tho, but they are in a cooler, moist shady area for a decent part of the day. The three roses planted 2013 took OFF the next summer, while those planted 2014 are still small but did great over the winter and I look forward to them taking off this year. I always had blooms on at least one of them if not all three older plants - although the flushes were amazing. And the scent is wonderful, as is the coloring.

My biggest problem is the japanese beetles LOVE this rose. I lost one huge flush last July to those jerks.
Reply #2 of 15 posted 22 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
I have over 20 first year plants that are constantly blooming with no blackspot. While I've seen a lot of strange colors as they get established, I've also finally seen some purple tones, especially on a day when we get a break from the heat (Z8). But so far, no scent! Could it be my sandy soil or am I just being impatient?
Reply #3 of 15 posted 29 OCT 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Yes, soil and fertilizer have a factor on the scent. A friend from alkaline clay sent me a bloom of her Munstead Wood (grafted on Dr.Huey) & fertilized with fish-emulsion. And it was intensely fragrant !! The rose park's Munstead Wood is medium scent. And my own-root Munstead Wood only has a light scent, since it's 1st year.

Roses' scent become stronger in 2nd or 3rd year. My Tchaikosky and William Shakespeare 2000's scents were barely there in the 1st year. Then the scent becomes stronger, and fantastic as the bush gets older. Clay soil does help with scent. The rose park nearby (alkaline clay) has the best scent on many roses ... but Chicago Botanical Garden (alkaline loamy soil) has much less scent on the same roses.
Reply #4 of 15 posted 29 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
Thanks for the encouragement! I do have many first year Jude the Obscures with a great scent so I had high hopes for Ebb. That being said, in my no-spray Z8, we had a couple of extremely humid days and Jude is covered in blackspot, along with Heirloom, but Ebb looks perfect.
Reply #5 of 15 posted 29 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
I did have some roses in clay but they were really struggling until I mixed in some coarse sand. That helped tremendously but I hope that I didn't sabotage the scent!
Reply #6 of 15 posted 30 OCT 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Also chicken manure helps with strong scent. My friend with the best-scent ever on Munstead Wood: she raises her own chicken and fertilizes her roses with chicken manure plus fish-emulsion (for deep colors). My Pink Peace grafted has light scent for 2 years, until I used "Coop Poop" no-odor chicken manure with NPK 2-4-3, the soluble phosphorus and copper in chicken manure gave Pink Peace a good scent, but Pink Peace grafted CAN NEVER measure up to Pink-Peace as own-root.

Another person noted the same as I do: when the soil is alkaline, the fruity and myrrh scent is strong. But Grafted-on-Dr.-Huey secretes more acid, which lessen the fruity and myrrh scent. Which explains why many people, including me complain about Pink-Peace-grafted with weaker scent, but Pink Peace own-root smells wonderfully strong: fruit-loops and butter-cream frosting.

One year I dumped acid-fertilizer on Mary Magdalene and took away its fabulous myrrh scent. Plus it broke out in mildew !! After I scraped off the sulfur/acid, and watered with my pH 9 tap-water, I got the myrrh scent back.

In contrast, the Old Rose scent is stronger when the soil is more acidic, and as own-root matures, it produces more acid, thus the Old Rose scent is more noticeable in the 2nd and 3rd year. The Old Rose scent is strongest with acidic rain water, and folks in CA with alkaline-tap water don't notice much scent in Austin with old-rose scents. A friend in CA could not smell anything from The Dark Lady, but that was the best smelling rose at Chicago Botanical Garden after lots of acidic rain.
Reply #7 of 15 posted 30 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge!
Reply #8 of 15 posted 30 OCT 16 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Google "organic rose" and you'll see organic rose forum, where I posted info. on where to buy no-odor Coop-poop chicken manure, plus how to deal with blackspots. I have Heirloom as grafted on Dr. Huey and also grew Heirloom as own-root. The own-root was much healthier, but roots was too small to survive my zone 5a winter. The Heirloom grafted is only happy with fast-draining & loamy potting soil, and tend to blackspot in dense clay. For BS-prone roses like Heirloom or Double Delight (grafted-on-Dr.Huey), I need to dig down 2.5 feet for fast-drainage in acidic rain, plus supply slow-released lime to UP the pH, since Dr. Huey rootstock likes it alkaline.

My Jude as own-root was 100% healthy in fast-draining potting soil, plus frequent doses of sulfate of potash/gypsum, but B.S. when I neglected soluble fertilizer. Such wimpy roots need either super-loamy & neutral pH soil, or "spoon-fed" with potassium/calcium, which are essential for thicker leaves against fungal invasion.
Reply #9 of 15 posted 30 OCT 16 by Lavenderlace
Thanks so much!
Reply #10 of 15 posted 26 APR 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lavenderlace: you are right about sandy soil (less magnesium), thus less scent than heavy clay. Magnesium is what makes clay sticky, and it's the "glue" to hold on to the scent. Nearby CANTIGNY ROSE PARK (alkaline clay) has better scent than loamy CHICAGO BOTANICAL roses. Cantigny rose park used to be a horse stable so there's a thick accumulation of COMPOSTED horse manure over decades. Horse eat oats, and oats are high in Omega-3 fatty acids. I put horse manure in a bucket, it rained, and I saw grease floating on top !!

A friend with heavy clay in CA sent me some blooms for me to sniff. Her roses have the best scents ever !! My heavy clay with horse manure can't match the intensity of her scents ... she fertilizes her roses with chicken manure plus fish emulsion (high in Omega-3). Fatty acids (Omega-3) is needed to retain the scent. Cooks often fry spices in oil, to induce flavors in food. Factors in fragrance: humidity, trace elements in soil, amount of magnesium, and Omega-3 fatty acids. Another factor which lessen the scent is lime (calcium). There's lime (to deodorize) in fresh horse manure, and that decreased roses' scents. One time I put gypsum (calcium sulfate) and that completely took away the scent of Basyes Blueberry rose (was intensely fragrant BEFORE the gypsum application.)
Reply #11 of 15 posted 26 APR 17 by Lavenderlace
That's very interesting about the manure for fertilizer. Oats have quite a high phosphorus content which helps balance out the high calcium in alfalfa. Of course, the manure could be from grass hay and not a legume, so it's hard to know what you're getting unless they actually know what the animals are eating.

Thanks for your info on Omega 3's also. Do you think the inverted ratio with omega 6 in oats is relevant in roses like in humans?
Reply #12 of 15 posted 26 APR 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Magnesium is the top factor in retaining scent, esp. the fruity scent. Magnesium UP the pH level, and the fruity scent is definitely stronger at higher pH (Mich in HMF noted this, same with me & that friend in CA). The Old rose scent is stronger at acidic pH (like rain water). The nutrients in oats are 173 mg Omega-3 and 3,781 mg of Omega-6, plus 82% phosphorus and 383 % manganese. If the horse are fed oats, then there's a high level of manganese and fatty acids.
The lime I refer to is the ADDED oyster lime by my local stable to take away the horses' urine odor in their stall. Lime is also added to bagged cow-manure to lessen the stench. That raises the pH, plus take away Old-Rose scents. I always get better scent on my roses via stinky chicken manure .. horse manure (with lime added) lessen the scent on certain roses, esp. the old-rose and clove scents.
Reply #13 of 15 posted 27 APR 17 by Lavenderlace
Thanks so much for sharing your experiences!
Reply #14 of 15 posted 27 APR 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lavenderlace: Lime is definitely a "deodorizer", even at neutral pH like gypsum (calcium sulfate), which turned a strong wild-rose scent into zero scent. Mich from Fremont is right about the fruity (sweet) scent is stronger at high pH. Years ago I grew bland tasting tomato in pots (neutral loamy potting soil), versus super-sweet tomato in my heavy clay, pH near 8, fertilized with chicken manure. My peach tree gave much sweeter fruits than the peaches picked from Michigan orchards (lower pH soil). High pH does help with the "sweet taste" in fruits, as well as "sweet" fruity scents in roses.

Folks report on how chicken manure made their tomatoes really sweet. My Mom's garden used to be a chicken-farm, she grows the SWEETEST & most flavorful veggies. Chicken manure is highest in copper, zinc, and boron and those trace elements definitely help with flavor/scent.
Reply #15 of 15 posted 27 APR 17 by Lavenderlace
That's fascinating about the higher ph affecting the fragrance in roses and taste in fruits. I'll definitely keep that in mind, thank you!
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