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'Mary Woodhouse' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 153-895
most recent 8 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 7 NOV by odinthor
From periodical The Cultivator and Country Gentleman, 1884, p. 916: “Mrs. Degraw Rose—or the raiser says we should spell it ‘Degrauw,’ but the public never will. This rose is of Bourbon caste, very much like Hermosa, and for fall blooming more profuse than any other hardy rose. The roses are of a lively pink color, produced more or less all summer long, but they are not in perfection till September, and they continue in profusion till hard frost destroys the buds, usually well into November. I have tried them as in-door roses, but they were not satisfactory. Although reckoned a hardy rose, it got cut back a good deal with me, also with its raiser, last winter. It is not a new rose by any means, having been raised many years ago by a Glen Cove florist, but it seems to have only a local distribution. Last year we sent several plants to Boston, and this winter I intend sending plants of it elsewhere to my friends. I don’t believe in lighting a candle and placing it under a bushel.” Writer is Wm. Falconer of Glen Cove, New York.

Same publication, 1885, p. 47: “Mrs. Degraw rose is not yet on the market, although it was raised many years ago and distributed locally. In a year or two you will, I expect, find it in florists’ catalogues. Wm. Burgess is the raiser.”
REPLY
Reply #1 of 6 posted 7 NOV by jedmar
The proposition that 'Champion of the World' is a synonym of Mrs DeGraw is quite recent. Have you seen an early references to that claim? These two roses might need to be separated.
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Reply #2 of 6 posted 7 NOV by odinthor
I do think they need to be separated in any case, until it's firmly proven that they are--and were originally--the same rose. At this point, it seems to me that they were lookalikes rather than true synonyms. The writer, Mr. Falconer, clearly knows Burgess, and his statement has an air of knowing personally that 'Mrs. Degraw/Degrauw' has been around a long time (rather than trusting Burgess on that). A lot depends on what "many years ago" in the quote means; to me, that implies a decade or more. One of the parents of 'Champion of the World' is understood to have been 'Magna Charta', which was introduced in 1876--in England. If the implication is that 'Magna Charta' was a parent of 'Mrs. Degraw', that really doesn't leave "many years" for 'Magna Charta' to be imported to America, propagated and sold, grown in Glen Cove, to have had crops of seedlings, for the crops of seedlings to themselves grow and be assessed, and for one of them to be found worthy and had any sort of distribution, even locally--everything would have had to have been on the fast track, which doesn't happen very often in Horticulture. But meantime, I'm investigating further.

If it and 'Champion of the World' are the very same rose, then the name with priority through chronological precedence is 'Mrs. Degraw' (or 'Mrs. Degrauw').
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Reply #3 of 6 posted 7 NOV by odinthor
Here we go: “At the present time the ‘voice of the birds’ is whispering that ‘Mrs. Degraw’ and ‘Champion of the World’ are possibly identical with, or very similar to, that good old Bourbon, ‘Pierre de St. Cyr’. [As grown alongside of each other by V.H. Hallock & Sons, of Queens, N.Y., and critically compared at different times by leading New York rosarians ‘Mrs. Degraw’ and ‘Champion of the World’ have been pronounced distinct. Ed.]” Gardening, vol. 1, May 1, 1893, p. 260.

They should be separated. Now the question is "Degraw" or "Degrauw"?
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Reply #4 of 6 posted 7 NOV by Lee H.
It would really add to the proof that they are distinct, if one could find them both listed at any time in the same catalog. So far, I have not.

One thing that seems more certain (to me), is that there may be two separate ‘Mrs.DeGraw’s’. One, a Bourbon introduced in 1885 by Burgess, the other possibly synonymous with ‘Champion of the World’, an HP by Woodhouse in 1894.

Or am I completely turned around?
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Reply #5 of 6 posted 8 NOV by odinthor
I've run across a handful of catalogs listing both. Leedle 1923, and Dingee & Conard 1907, for two quick instances which came to hand.

For what it's worth: Based on what I've been seeing in periodicals and catalogs of the time, 'Mrs. Degraw' seems to have been considered a basic dependable decorative rose for about twenty years or so, while 'Champion of the World' had a shorter period, originally, in the public esteem.
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Reply #6 of 6 posted 8 NOV by jedmar
Mrs. Degraw added. While dedicated to Jane Degrauw, it was apparently never spelled so in commerce. The breeding year adjusted to ca. 1865, introduction ca. 1885 (by whom?)
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Discussion id : 92-460
most recent 30 APR 16 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 30 APR 16 by raingreen
Does Champion of the World have an ornamental hip display?

Thanks, Nate
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Discussion id : 50-221
most recent 1 DEC 10 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 1 DEC 10 by AnneU
In the book, ‘Roses et Jardins’, author M-Th Haudebourg, ‘Souvenir de Mrs de Graw’ is a synonym of ‘Champion of the World’.
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