HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
"Alice Hamilton - in commerce" rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 106-461
most recent 10 NOV 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 10 NOV 17 by Singularly Beautiful Roses
I picked OP hips this fall. Will report on progeny.
Discussion id : 67-123
most recent 4 MAR 14 SHOW ALL
Initial post 26 SEP 12 by Jim Delahanty
The provenance for the cuttings supplied to the Sacramento Historic City Cemetery goes as follows:
I received the plant after a talk given to the Desert Rose Society some years ago; they received the plant/cuttings from Robert Rippetoe who received the plant personally from the hands of Ralph Moore.
Robert has grown both 'Old Blush' and 'Alice Hamilton' side by side and believes that while the plants are similar, they are not identical.
Reply #1 of 9 posted 27 SEP 12 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Keep in mind that 'Alice Hamilton' was bred from 'Old Blush'. There is an obvious affinity but there also seem to be differences.

'Alice Hamilton' blossoms seem to have better substance and blush a bit more when exposed to sunlight.
Reply #2 of 9 posted 27 SEP 12 by RoseBlush

I looked up the lineage for 'Alice Hamilton' which lists 'Parson's Pink China' as the pollen parent. When I checked 'Parson's Pink China', I found that it was a synonym for 'Old Blush'. 'Old Blush' is not mentioned in the REFERENCES, which show other parentages, but my question is:

Would it be more informative to site users to use 'Old Blush' in the HMF lineage on the rose page with a NOTE explaining that 'Parson's Pink China' is a synonym for OB ?

Reply #3 of 9 posted 27 SEP 12 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
I know the names are synonymous. Perhaps others do not, so I see your point.

It seems to me the parentage should be stated as first supplied by the hybridizer for historical accuracy.

Popularity of names change over time.

IMO, It's up to us as researchers to recognize synonyms.

Best wishes, Robert
Reply #4 of 9 posted 28 SEP 12 by billy teabag
Is there some discussion re the veracity of this identification? The early references describe a rose with a large, semi-double, bright velvety crimson bloom.
Reply #5 of 9 posted 28 SEP 12 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Billy, whatever I have here, it doesn't match that description. I don't know where Sequoia received it from but looking at posted photos, it seems to be the same as that grown in Europe under the same name.
Reply #6 of 9 posted 28 SEP 12 by Jim Delahanty
I think Robert is right regarding the need for researchers to be aware of the various synonyms; however, it seems to me that the service here is for both newbies and pros. At some time we are all newbies--(well, maybe not Robert) and need the additional information not to be misled.
Reply #7 of 9 posted 28 SEP 12 by RoseBlush
Hi JD...

I agree that the breeder/raiser of a rose should determine which name to use in the lineage of a rose and, if we have the REFERENCES available, that should be what shows on the rose page on HMF. Until we have a REFERENCE that specifically states the parentage with 'Old Blush' as the pollen parent, it might be best to leave it as it stands because the REFERENCES we do have don't report the same lineage.

If someone has a REFERENCE that we can add that is more specific, which I know may be hard to find, we can add it to the database.

Reply #8 of 9 posted 29 SEP 12 by billy teabag
There is a Nabonnand study group in France that may have access to records.
Reply #9 of 9 posted 4 MAR 14 by Rockhill
If you look up the Friends of Nabonnand roses website, you will see that they cannot verify that the rose currently being sold as 'Alice Hamilton' in Europe and the US is the original rose. it certainly does not match the description in the Nabonnand catalogue of 1904, which will shortly be posted on HMF.
Discussion id : 60-319
most recent 27 DEC 11 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 27 DEC 11 by Landperson
Import rose currently in quarantine at Vintage Gardens. May be pre-ordered through 12/31/11 for delivery in 2013.
© 2024