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'Hulthemosa hardii' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 76-071
most recent 16 JAN 14 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 16 JAN 14 by CybeRose
The Gardeners' Chronicle

p. 775 Nov. 4, 1843
Rosa Hardii. Mr. Hardy's Rose (Hardy Shrub) Rosaceae Icosandria. Polygynia. This plant is a hybrid, raised between Rosa berberifolia and R. involucrata by Mr. Hardy, gardener at the Luxembourg Gardens, Paris, and it has been named after its originator. It is much superior to R. berberifolia, and is decidedly a very ornamental Rose, on account of its large and deep yellow or pale orange-coloured flowers, which have a rich brownish or dark sanguine blotch at the base of each petal. Its pleasing foliage is likewise a recommendation, being in itself pretty, and so different from that of other Roses. It is one of those delicate-rooted things which require some care in their management; though the chief difficulties are overcome when the soil is rendered of a proper nature and texture, and the drainage is complete. It is said to thrive best in heath-mould; but there are serious mistakes current respecting the kind of heath-soil which is used for fine-rooted plants. That black, fibreless, close, and sandy bog-earth which is often employed, is the very worst of all soils for any plant that is tender. A very open, fibrous moor-soil, however, of a brown colour, and almost free from sand, is unquestionably suitable for such species as this; though a little light loam or leaf mould should be mingled with it. With such a compost, well drained, the plant will not fail either in a pot or the open border. It is extremely sensitive to wet, and especial caution should be exercised in preserving it from undue dampness. Treated in this way, if the shoots arc pegged down in winter, it will form a fine spreading bush, and may be increased either by layers or cuttings. The latter strike freely in spring, if managed like those of the China Roses. It is quite hardy on a well-drained border.—Paxton's Magazine of Botany.

p. 789 Nov. 11, 1843
Rosa Hardii.—I should be glad to know the real history of this plant. I have for some time been endeavouring to discover if any rule can be found for the estimation of the probable effect of the male parent on the appearance of hybrid plants. In certain tribes the male type is very strongly developed in the progeny, but there are others on which I have been able to form no decided opinions. As soon as I saw the notice of Rosa Hardii in Paxton, for October, I became very desirous to know more of the history of a hybrid in which the type of one of the parents was so remarkably predominant; the statement in Paxton that it was a hybrid between R. berberifolia and R. involucrata, was about as unsatisfactory and indefinite as could well be imagined. In the first place, it took no notice of the relative sexes of the reputed parents; and, in the second, it does not present the smallest resemblance to R. involucrata. I accordingly searched further, and in "Gore's Rose Fanciers Manual," 1838, I found "Rosa Hardii berberifolia obtained this year, by the accidental impregnation of that remarkable plant, the Rosa simplicifolia, or R. monophylla (Lowea berberifolia, Lindl.), by R. microphylla growing near it." Now this was a much more probable pedigree for the plant if the leaves only were to be considered, but when I observe that the flower is of quite as deep a colour as berberifolia itself, the question arises, how can this be—how can a mixture of a pink Rose with a yellow one produce another yellow without a trace of pink in it? Besides, there is another difficulty in the way; berberifolia is a single Rose, microphylla a very double one: is it, therefore, likely that the pollen produced by the hundreds of anthers of the flower producing the seed, should have failed to effect that which is reputed to have been done by the scanty pollen of the other? Persons who pay attention to the raising of hybrids well know the great care required to prevent any portion of the pollen of the female plant from touching the stigma, because they have found by experience that in general the contact of the smallest portion of the proper pollen renders all their attempts abortive. All that appears certain about the plant in question is, that it was raised from seed of R. berberifolia; I am, therefore, inclined to think that it is no hybrid at all, but merely a seminal variety; at the same time, I should like to know if there is any other account of it than those I have mentioned, because, hybrid or not, it is doubtless a very remarkable plant.—J. C. B. [We have always understood that one of its parents was R. clinophylla.]

p. 822 Nov. 24, 1843
Rosa Hardii.—The account of the origin of this plant which was given in "Paxton's Magazine of Botany," was supplied by a friend from Rivers's "Rose Amateurs' Guide," for 1840, p. 161. It is there said "Rosa Hardii, or Rosa berberifolia Hardii, is a most interesting Rose, lately raised from seed by Monsieur Hardy, of the Luxembourg Gardens, from Rosa involucrata, a variety of R. bracteata, fertilized with that unique Rose, R. berberifolia, or the single Yellow Persian Rose." I presume the work in question may be regarded as an authority.—E. K.
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Discussion id : 71-055
most recent 14 APR 13 HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 14 APR 13 by CybeRose
Gardener's Magazine 12(74): 225-226 (May 1836)
Gardening Notices suggested by a Tour in France, in August and September, 1835.
by T. Rivers, Jun.

"...M. Hardy is rather chary of his roses, and does not like them to be distributed hastily...

"Among the seedling roses in this garden were some most curious hybrids, between Rosa or Lowea berberifolia and other roses: they had not yet bloomed, but really looked very interesting, owing to their peculiar habit."
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Discussion id : 43-126
most recent 4 APR 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 13 MAR 10 by Patricia Routley
Continuing the posting from 'Other' - from Simon.
Simon - check out the 1993 Australian Rose Annual reference. This rose was in the Melbourne Botanic Gardens and may still be there.
Patricia
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 20 MAR 10 by Simon Voorwinde
Just got word back from Melbourne Botanic Gardens. They no longer have this plant either.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 20 MAR 10 by Patricia Routley
That is sad. It did prefer dry climates however.
Is there a Botanical Gardens plant listing anywhere? Perhaps it may be in the Alice Springs, Broken Hill, or Mildura Bot Gdns - if there are any such gardens. Or what about the Xeriscape Gardens in Canberra?
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 21 MAR 10 by billy teabag
Are you a member of Heritage Roses in Australia Simon?
It may be worth a letter to Ed asking whether any member has this plant.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 21 MAR 10 by Patricia Routley
Billy has replied to my comment, and I am replying to her comment - just to keep that nice indentation going in the comments. Simon, I am quite, quite sure you will see these comments as you seem the sort of rosarian who sits down each morning with coffee and HelpMeFind to start the day.

Being a member of Heritage Roses in Australia is well worth while indeed. As a matter of fact Mr. Laurie Newman, who owned/owns [?] Reliable Roses nursery wrote about this rose in a 2005 journal (Vol 27, No. 4, p28) Incidentally, I note in HelpMeFind Website Errors and Problems in January (2009 or 2010?) there was a message that Reliable Roses were "presently sold out of R. Hulthemia persica and R. x Hulthemosa hardii"

I have found one more reference in the old Heritage Roses in Australia journals to someone who had Hulthemosa hardii. In 1988 N. Mitchell in the A.C.T. (dry and cold) said "Hulthemosa Hardii only stops in the frosty weather. There are still blooms on it now, June 8, 1988. I wish Harkness' Tigris and Euphrates were available here."

The editor, Robert Peace, has added a footnote here:
"Harkness has sent several of his Hulthemia Hybrids to the trial grounds but they have met with little favour. The main problem is that the seedlings don't transplant readily and there is still very poor compatibility with conventional rose understocks. Hardii is tricky enough until it deigns to prosper."

1988 to 2010 is 22 years, but the garden of N. Mitchell may still have this rose. And if not, Billy's idea to ask Heritage Roses in Australia is certainly recommended.
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 4 APR 10 by Simon Voorwinde
Thanks for this (I didn't see all these replies for some reason... I did not receive any alerts that I am aware of). I've been in touch with Laurie Newman and asked him about it. He's told me his last plant died a little while back.

I share Mitchell's sentiment regarding 'Tigris' but am I hopeful of getting something with 'Euphrates' as I have a nice big fat hip pollinated by it almost ripe now :)

I will chase this lead as well. Thanks again.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 4 APR 10 by billy teabag
Simon - I tried to contact Dr Neil Mitchell about this, but the email address I have for him is no longer current. Perhaps there is someone in the HMF community who can help? (Dr Mitchell's work will be known to you through his importation of the China 'Ten Thousand Lights'.)
Sorry to hear that Laurie Newman's plant of Hulthemia hardii hasn't survived. Was Laurie able to tell you whether many people bought the rose from his nursery in the past. Are there any leads there that can be followed up?
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 4 APR 10 by Simon Voorwinde
That's something I hadn't thought of!!! I will email him and ask him.

I was aware of his connection with the importation of 'Ten Thousand Lights'... speaking of which, Viru and Girija... if you see this... the OP ''Rose of the Monastery of the Ten Thousand Camellias, Lijiang' seeds you sent have started to germinate :) One is up now and the rest have been sown to germinate naturally as well :)
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