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'Gertrude Jekyll' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 120-948
most recent 26 FEB SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 14 APR by newtie
I consider this rose to be David Austin's single most important introduction. This rose replaces the great Portland rose, Comte de Chambord. The latter is disease ridden in my hot humid climate. Not G.Jekyll however, which appears identical to C.de Chambord in every respect except vigor and disease resistance. G. Jekyll is outstanding here so long as it is pruned fairly heavily each year.
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Reply #1 of 7 posted 14 APR by Jay-Jay
I'll try that pruning method over here, for it stays very lanky throughout the years with very few flowers.
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Reply #2 of 7 posted 14 APR by newtie
Cut it back quite hard this winter. Half to two thirds.
Fertilize it in the early spring. It should be covered in blooms next spring. But it has to be reasonably healthy to begin with. After it is going good you can settle for removing about 1/3 of the canes length each subsequent year. Wear a flack jacket and heavy leather gloves when you do this.
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Reply #3 of 7 posted 15 APR by Jay-Jay
Thank You for the advice.
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Reply #4 of 7 posted 25 FEB by delaney
Jay Jay, did you try that hard pruning advice for Gertrude and did it work?
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Reply #5 of 7 posted 26 FEB by Jay-Jay
Yes, I did. It flowered on eye-level, because of that... But we had a very dry growing and flowering season, so alas not much of a sea of flowers. Just a few.
My top soil is only 40-60cm above 5m of boulder-clay. No water comes from below.
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Reply #6 of 7 posted 26 FEB by delaney
Thanks Jay Jay that helps. Cheers.
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Reply #7 of 7 posted 26 FEB by delaney
post deleted by user
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Discussion id : 102-073
most recent 23 FEB SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 6 JUL 17 by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
My GJ is being very stingy. Last year (first full season) I tried to grow it as a shrub rose and it didn't produce a flush but once. This year, I decided to let it grow as a climber so I could bend the canes to get more blooms. It did the same thing as last year - It bloomed once in March and just grows and grows without producing more blooms.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. It's a fantastic rose when it's in bloom, but it's not repeating very well at all for me. Any idea what might be wrong?
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Reply #1 of 30 posted 6 JUL 17 by Andrew from Dolton
This rose never did well for me. However, last autumn I gave it a dressing of lime as my soil is rather acidic. I also gave it the absolute minimum of pruning. This year it is flowering better although because of the cool summers in my location it never grows more than 1 metre high, it is on laxa rootstock not 'Dr Huey'.
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Reply #2 of 30 posted 6 JUL 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Everett: I look over your pictures of roses in pots ... I see pale upper leaves, that's typical of ALKALINE tap water, like my hard-well water at pH 9. For that reason I use vinegar & ACIDIC sulfate of potash & gypsum to fix my alkaline-tap-water and to force Austin roses to repeat fast. See my HMF profile on fixing one's alkaline-tap-water.

Folks in rich-minerals clay-region report Gertrude Jekyll repeats well, if pruned & given enough fertilizer.

Andrew is right about liming if the soil is acidic. Calcium is the building blocks for leaves, stems, roots, and petals. If there's tons of acidic rain (pH 5.6 on the west coast, and near 4 in the East coast) ... that also leach out minerals necessary for blooming. Like my own-root Munstead Wood in a pot refused to bloom with low-nutrients-LOAMY potting soil & tons of acidic rain. But when I put Munstead Wood in my alkaline clay (rich in minerals), it's pumping out 20+ buds right now 7/6/17 for 2nd-flush. To make stingy Austin roses to repeat bloom, a high-dose fertilizer NPK 8-20-40, plus lime (for acidic soil), or gypsum (for alkaline soil). High potassium force roses to bloom. High phosphorus forces more branching, rather than one-cane wonder. Low nitrogen helps to cut down the tall octopus canes (if grafted on Dr.Huey). Credit & many thanks to Perpetua in Romania who shared with me NPK 8-20-40 as the secret to tons of blooms.
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Reply #3 of 30 posted 7 JUL 17 by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
Thank you for the tips! I think you might be right about the soil acidity. I suspect the cause is the run off water from the roof. This year, I've noticed is that all my plants that get a high dosage of run-off rainwater from the roof aren't very happy at all. I lost a baby own root plant earlier this year and almost lost two others. I had a Lady of Shallot in the same spot as the GJ in the picture you saw from last year, and it was having the same symptoms as well. It's not as not growing or blooming much at all either (which is unusual for LoS). I moved it and watered it well and within a week, it started growing again like crazy.

Since I can't move my GJ away from the wall (apartment manager will throw a fit), I'd like to try a fertilizer like the one you suggested. Do you have any suggestions on a brand with that ratio that I can use for potted roses? Will the high numbers burn the roots?

FYI, my local nursery sells Jack's Classic bloom booster (10-30-20). Would that be a good place to start?

Thanks again for your help!
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Reply #4 of 30 posted 7 JUL 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Your rose is growing in a container, don't forget that most roses, like Clematis, like to have their roots cool and moist.
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Reply #5 of 30 posted 7 JUL 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Everett: Just saw the pic. of your bush, looks good. I can tell the pH is acidic, from the smaller & spindly & thin canes. At slightly alkaline pH, there's more calcium & potassium & phosphorus for blooming. Just google "plant nutrients chart and pH level" and you'll see.

G.J. at Chicago Botanical Garden is pruned quite short (below my waist) but with more blooms than leaves. CBG has alkaline loamy soil (pH 7.4), and they recommend soluble fertilizer NPK 20-20-20 three times a year.

To force GJ to re-bloom: Any fertilizer LOW in nitrogen would do. Chemical nitrogen has acidifying action .. which makes the pH even lower with acidic rain. Dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium, pH near 10) is expensive, a cheaper sub. is a 40 lbs. bag of pea-gravel (different colors) sold for $3 at local stores. Alkaline pea-gravel provide solid-minerals to neutralize acidic rain. In that assortment of colorful pea-gravel, the red/pink ones provide iron, the beige ones provide calcium, the gray ones provide magnesium .. but stay away from black-pea-gravel (high aluminum). Aluminum is toxic to roots.

The pea-gravel will neutralize acidic rain, plus provide solid minerals for blooming. Pea-gravel don't shoot up the pH like garden lime, it's a constant steady-release. If you have loamy/sandy soil, there's plenty of phosphorus, just need to aim for neutral pH (7) for phosphorus to be released. However, acidic rain does leach out calcium, potassium, and magnesium (in that order). Pea-gravel can add calcium & magnesium, but one still need potassium, either potassium chloride (very salty, but no acid), or potassium sulfate (sulfate of potash, 1/3 the salt, but with 21% sulfur). Only Amazon or Kelp4Less sell sulfate of potash, I like the sulfate of potash from Kelp4less better, it dissolves easily if sprinkle on the ground. Kelp4Less is free shipping. Years ago I posted a picture in HMF of Frederic Mistral going from 5 blooms per year to 40+ blooms in one flush, via sulfate of potash.

Potassium needs calcium and magnesium for best blooming. In hydroponic studies, the best ratio is 4:2:1:1, 4 part potassium, 2 part calcium, 1 part magnesium, and 1 part phosphorus. Rose tissue analysis done by University of CA at Davis showed similar ratio: twice more potassium than calcium, and much less magnesium and phosphorus. So either dolomitic lime (calcium & magnesium) or pea-gravel will help to activate sulfate of potash.

Also some Tomato-Tone (higher in potassium than Rose-Tone) will provide bacteria & mycorrhyzal fungi to help with phosphorus uptake. Espoma-Tomato tone is higher in calcium, sold for $10 for a HUGE bag at all stores (Walmart, HomeDepot, Lowe's). That has slow-released organic nitrogen, and doesn't lower pH like chemical nitrogen.
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Reply #6 of 30 posted 19 JUL 17 by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
Wow....you really know a lot! Thank you for taking the time to write that! I think the first thing I will do is test the soil, then use a low nitrogen fertilizer if needed. I'm gonna look into the pea gravel/kelp4less combo too.

As far as Tomato Tone goes, should I use the same amount as I would with Rose Tone?
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Reply #7 of 30 posted 11 NOV 19 by happymaryellen
Where would one find 8/20/40 fertilizer?
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Reply #8 of 30 posted 5 MAR 20 by newtie
Cut it back in winter to 3-4 feet. It will they put out new laterals, get bushier and bloom heavily. This rose likes to be cut back.
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Reply #9 of 30 posted 20 FEB by peterdewolf
Hi Newtie, are you pruning it as a big bush then, instead of a climber
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Reply #10 of 30 posted 20 FEB by happymaryellen
My experience was this, when I used David Austin rose food, everything changed! I was so surprised! Healthier leaves, more blooms...and you only have to sprinkle it on the soil,it waters itslf in. Prior, Ihad used Maxsea monthly. But ehat a difference the DA food made! And no, I am not a pusher. Lol
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Reply #11 of 30 posted 20 FEB by Jay-Jay
Even though, You're not a pusher. It sounds a bit to me as a conditional sale or tying practice... when the Austins only perform well on Austin's fertilizer.
As a climber, this rose gets spindly legs and only flowers sparsely at the end of the canes is my experience.
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Reply #12 of 30 posted 20 FEB by happymaryellen
You may be right! I was just thrilled to find something that worked. I had a carding mill just failing and the food helped it enormously. The tricky part was last year they ran out of the food! So this year I bought extra early on so that I did not end up in that position. I’m also trying volcanic ash on some other roses just to see if that works. Always an experiment, right?
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Reply #13 of 30 posted 20 FEB by Jay-Jay
What is a karting mill? I know what a carding mill is and used that, before spinning and twining wool.
Volcanic ash seems to me in use a bit hazardous for ones lungs. I use lava grit or lava meal for that purpose.
Or do You use it too smother the aphids too?
And about my remark... I meant it most of the part as a joke. Some Austins just do not perform well everywhere on/in the world and even Austin ruled out a lot of their older varieties and do not promote or sell those anymore.
At least some of the Austins perform well in my garden as for instance Constance Spry, the Mary Rose (and its mutations), Abraham Darby and A Shropshire Lad. The most perform in good years reasonably. Some perform bad: Evelyn and Gertrude Jekyll are among those.
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Reply #14 of 30 posted 20 FEB by happymaryellen
Ooops carding mill....my bad... I wore a mask when I use the powder because it was kind of freaky. It’s called AZOMITE. And I decided to buy it and granular form after having the powder. It’ll be interesting to see as a sort of science experiment about whether it works or not. I have the Poet’s wife, the pilgrim, and Boscobel coming in. Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers. So that was kind of fun to hear that directly from DA themselves. I’ve only been gardening for six years, and I will say that there’s just some roses that don’t work in my garden. For example I can’t get Mr. Lincoln or fragrant cloud to be disease resistant in my garden at all! They flower, but their leaves are horrible. It may have something to do with the fact that I am totally organic too. Oh, my Mary Rose was terribly unhappy...but the area got shaded by my mermaid,so, I moved Mary to a highsun place in a pot and hoping for the best. I give them two years...trouble? They are out! Lol
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Reply #15 of 30 posted 20 FEB by Give me caffeine
Mr. Lincoln is prone to black spot in my area, so the foliage is often rubbish, but the plant is tough enough to keep going anyway. Best idea with Lincoln, IMO, is to plant it somewhere out of the way and just use it for cutting, and/or to plant more aesthetically pleasing things around it.

(I'm not fanatical about organic, but hardly ever spray things.)
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Reply #26 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
that's useful to know. .
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Reply #16 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
Some of the ones they 'retired', like Constance Spry and Chianti , were top performers . IMO. We also can't get The Pilgrim in our part of the world, and it's a lovely rose that performed just fine here. So , you know....
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Reply #17 of 30 posted 21 FEB by Jay-Jay
- What means "IMO". First time ever, I see this abbreviation.

- "Our Rose Society had the lady who is the representative for David Austin the United States present for us. And she talked about how they have retired some because they’ve learned overtime that they were not top performers." Some of those retirees perform amazing. Take f.i. a look at: helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.34260
Combined with what was there originally in my HMF inbox:
"But the trademark ran out. So they discredit the old and push new stuff. IMO."

I heard the latter too from a seller and official propagator of Austin Roses.
When one reads the catalogues of Austin, this years' varieties are the best ever...
Most of the time no lineage and as for appearance maybe no improvement of the older varieties.
Maybe another new path of crossing and breeding might be desired?
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Reply #18 of 30 posted 21 FEB by DLEverette_NC_Zone7b
IMO = In my opinion
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Reply #19 of 30 posted 21 FEB by Jay-Jay
Thanks!
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Reply #21 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
Sorry Jay Jay,
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Reply #22 of 30 posted 21 FEB by Give me caffeine
I notice that, after going on a wild ride with nicknames, you're back to being veilchenblau. It was exciting while it lasted. :)
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Reply #27 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
comment removed by user
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Reply #23 of 30 posted 21 FEB by Give me caffeine
It probably should be NMM for you. You could start using NMM just to wind up the Anglos. ;)
(naar mijn mening, if the translator is correct.)
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Reply #24 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
comment removed by user
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Reply #25 of 30 posted 21 FEB by Jay-Jay
The translator is correct, but the "short for" (afkorting) isn't common.
And luckily I had my caffeine today.
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Reply #20 of 30 posted 21 FEB by delaney
comment removed by user
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Reply #28 of 30 posted 22 FEB by happymaryellen
Well damn damn. Bummer.
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Reply #29 of 30 posted 22 FEB by delaney
comment removed by user
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Reply #30 of 30 posted 23 FEB by delaney
comment removed by user
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Discussion id : 125-634
most recent 21 FEB SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 FEB by peterdewolf
Hello from the sunny shores of Ireland ;-) . Just planted 14 climbers and numerous shrub roses. Trying to swot and have been visiting here for over a year and learned a lot. I couldn't have designed this little garden without the detailed help on this site.
One biggie for me is the advice on pruning Gertrude Jekyl. I've read various advice here to cut her back etc. Yet everything else Ive read is that you don't prune the main canes back on climbers, certainly prune the laterals, crossing canes, old and diseased canes. I'm assuming that if I cut a main cane back then it'll produce laterals and in that event do I select one and allow it to become a main cane while pruning the other laterals.
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 15 FEB by Mr Vine Eye
Hi, basically yes - a lateral can be trained and used as a structural (main) cane, with more laterals then growing off that cane in subsequent seasons.
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 15 FEB by peterdewolf
Thank you for answering my question.
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 21 FEB by delaney
I suspect that the advice about hard pruning Gertrude was for those wanting to grow it as a shrub not a climber.
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 21 FEB by peterdewolf
Ok thanks I'll bear that in mind
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Discussion id : 123-740
most recent 7 NOV HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 7 NOV by Viviane SCHUSSELE
Gertrude Jekyll paysagiste anglaise 1843 1932
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