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'Borderer' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 114-697
most recent 3 MAY 20 SHOW ALL
Initial post 31 DEC 18 by Michael Garhart
I wonder if the unknown parent is Archiduc Joseph. Jersey Beauty seems to have consistently bred dwarf polyanthas and shrubs from other very large teas and HTs.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 31 DEC 18 by Patricia Routley
Certainly possible Michael. Alister Clark talked (ARA 1943, p44) talked about 'Archiduc Joseph' (and two others) in making a fine trio of winter roses. 'Borderer' was bred in 1918 and Tea Roses. Old Roses for Warm Gardens page 146 tells us that 'Monsieur Tillier' was sold in Australia between 1909 and 1941.

I have often looked at my 'Jersey Beauty' (R. wichuraiana x Perle des Jardins) and wondered why Alister chose this parent for many of his roses. the only thing I can come up with is the vigour of R. wichurlaiana, or the ease of dabbing pollen on to an almost single rose. ('Jersey Beauty' was rarely used as a pollen parent.)
Reply #2 of 5 posted 1 JAN 19 by Margaret Furness
Maybe he realised it had a dwarfing gene, like George Thomson using 'Mrs Mary Thomson' to shrink Austin roses (which get very big in our warm climates).
Reply #3 of 5 posted 1 JAN 19 by Michael Garhart
I am guessing Jersey Beauty has a gene or perhaps linked genes on one side that can induce dwarfing, which is more complete in diploids, since there are fewer sets of chromosomes to compete with.

Which makes me wonder about Perl des Jardins unknown part of its lineage. Perhaps there is some hidden noisette and/or china in there hiding. Safrano does have some noisette, but the unknown half could also have china or noisette lurking in it, as well.

Another interesting fact is that Microchip, which is 2 generations beyond Borderer, is even smaller, but has no miniature genetics in it. It is simply 3 polyanthas bred together, which makes me consider that Microchip is simply a polyantha where every set of chromosomes applicable has dominance for dwarfing or there is a different type of allele present for dwarfing in Little White Pet that differs in hormone pathways/phenotype from R. wich or China.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 3 MAY 20 by HubertG
Alister Clark certainly had 'Archiduc Joseph' as early as 1906 when he was exhibiting it at the Melbourne Autumn Rose Show (see comment under 'Courier').

Regarding 'Microchip' - I wonder whether its pollen parent 'Suitor' also came from a 'Jersey Beauty' background.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 3 MAY 20 by Michael Garhart
I assumed it did, to be honest.
Discussion id : 80-892
most recent 6 OCT 14 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 5 OCT 14 by Jane Z
Newspaper report from April 1918 gives a comprehensive description of 'Borderer'. The final phrase not visible in the jpeg below is "most reliable and suitable to our Australian climate."
Reply #1 of 1 posted 6 OCT 14 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Jane. It is good to have these early references.
Discussion id : 63-906
most recent 28 APR 12 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 28 APR 12 by Grntrz5
Borderer looks like Abraham Darby in color, and bloom shape, but with the cooler springs, and more water the blooms are almost 3 inches across, with large petals-more of a formal look, not so much like a polyantha. With dry weather the fragrance is stronger. It will get blackspot in cool, humid weather, but keeps it's leaves.
Discussion id : 33-379
most recent 24 JAN 09 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 23 JAN 09 by Kat Lee
I love Borderer- I even had to move it in September (90 degrees) and it was blooming like crazy even after duress. Great small rose. I wouldn't put it in too much direct sun, as I think the flowers can get a bit wimpy (?) in the heat. Will posts pics this spring.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 24 JAN 09 by billy teabag
I agree with you Kat. It's an excellent low grower, healthy and very recurrent.
Such an aptly named rose.
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