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'Nelkenrose' Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 93-921
most recent 30 DEC 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 8 JUL 16 by Jay-Jay
Is this Grootendorst? Photograph's taken in artificial light. Last year it still bloomed in December! But then the flowers were even smaller(≤ 2cm), than normal.
Reply #1 of 12 posted 9 JUL 16 by Patricia Routley
I think it is.
Reply #2 of 12 posted 9 JUL 16 by Jay-Jay
Thank You Patricia for the feedback.
Reply #3 of 12 posted 28 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
Now I am asking the same question. My 'F. J. Grootendorst' 1918 blooms are smaller than its sport 'Pink Grootendorst' 1923 and do not seem quite as fimbriated as 'Pink Grootendorst'. The petal shape is slightly wider and shorter than 'Pink Grootendorst'. These differences may be because 'F. J. Grootendorst' has had very little pruning in past years, and 'Pink Grootendorst' might have had just a little more, being on the edge of the bed. Both these plants are within two metres of one another. Is this size difference normal with both parent and sport?
Reply #4 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Michael Garhart
It's possibly due to the weather/climate interacting with the chemicals that produce the color.
Reply #5 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
It is not actually the color that concerns me, Michael.
Initially I was asked by a New Zealand rosarian to find out more about 'Signe Relander' as the plant which came from Trevor Griffiths nursery and named as that, seemed to the same as 'F. J. Grootendorst'. Which lead me to looking closely at my 'F. J. Grootendorst'.

I am unsure whether 'F. J. Grootendorst' 1918 sported to just a new colour with 'Pink Grootendorst' in 1923 - or whether the sport also had larger blooms and different shaped petals, along with its pink colour.
Or perhaps my red rose is not 'F. J. Grootendorst' after all.....?

I have emailed Poulsen Roser for help, and they may yet reply, but not so far.
Reply #6 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Michael Garhart
I have never had a company reply to me, but maybe Poulsen will be an exception.

I see. Well, lots of food for thought here.
Reply #7 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Jay-Jay
Found in the descriptions on HMF, that sizes and petal count seem to differ a little. I wrote those characteristics in CAPITALS:

Pink Grootendorst: Pink. None to mild fragrance. 25 to 30 petals. AVERAGE diameter 1.5". Small, FULL (26-40 petals) bloom form.

Grootendorst: Red. None to mild fragrance. 39 petals. AVERAGE diameter 1.25". Small, VERY DOUBLE, cluster-flowered, in large clusters, open bloom form.

So Pink Grootendorst might be slightly larger.
Reply #8 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Andrew from Dolton
In the U.K. 'Pink Grootendorst' flowers paler than in your picture, 'White Grootendorst' is a horrible dirty white. I love the colour of your 'F. J. Grootendorst' that's one I will be ordering for myself.
Reply #9 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
Well, I am very grateful to you for those measurements Jay-Jay. You made me look harder and get the ruler out on blooms in the vase. They are indeed both about those sizes. Perhaps it is the dark red which makes it retreat into the background, and the more strident pink is shown up more and so seems larger.

So, that gets me back to - how does 'Signe Relander' differ from 'F. J. Grootendorst'?
Reply #10 of 12 posted 29 DEC 17 by Jay-Jay
Wow! Those two roses are close-related!!!
It looks as if the clusters of Signe Relander contain less flowers than the large clusters of F.J. Grootendorst.
But I do not grow those roses together.
Reply #11 of 12 posted 30 DEC 17 by Patricia Routley
My feeling is that 'Signe Relander' is scented, and 'F. J. Grootendorst' is not. Which might be a reason for you to choose 'Signe Relander' if you can find it Andrew.
Thank you for your interest and help Jay-Jay.
Reply #12 of 12 posted 30 DEC 17 by Andrew from Dolton
Thank you Patricia, I will have to buy 'Signe Relander' from Europe which will be expensive. Your 'F. J. Grootendorst' almost looks dark enough for 'F. J. Grootendorst Supreme'.
Discussion id : 105-405
most recent 10 SEP 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 7 SEP 17 by Singularly Beautiful Roses
This might be added to the "References" tab; "The Origin of the Rugosa Hybrid, F. J. Grootendorst, - A letter in May, 1923, from a Holland nurseryman who has given the most careful and useful attention to compiling an accurate list of rose varieties, mentions the origin of this excellent and unusual Polyantha hybrid in the following words: 'I was among the jury that gave the first award to this rose. It was in the nursery of a very small fellow, and I remember that we gave it the highest award because we thought of the greatest possibilities of this rose in a rough climate. Some people have blamed us for it, but I am still proud of my share in it. You will find the name of the raiser (De Goey) in our coming list (Grootendorst is the introducer only), which list is now ready for the press."

1924 American Rose Annual, p. 186.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 10 SEP 17 by jedmar
We'll do it once the References tab is operational again!
Discussion id : 104-008
most recent 4 AUG 17 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 4 AUG 17 by Sambolingo
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Discussion id : 73-103
most recent 17 JUL 13 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 17 JUL 13 by Unregistered Guest
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