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'Lady Edgeworth David' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
25 FEB 15
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* This post deleted by user *
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So it might appear as if the rose found by Val and Graeme Johnston (see 1990 and 2002 refs) at Rookwood some time before [?] 1983 (when Trevor Nottle’s book 'Growing Old Fashioned Roses' was published). The Johnston’s gave it to Roy Rumsey (1990 ref) and later when Roy was unimpressed with it (Heather Rumsey did not include ‘Lady Edgeworth David’ in her 1990 book ‘Old Fashioned Roses for Australian Gardens’), they gave it as well to Peter Cox who sold it from his Thirlmere nursery in the late 1980s.
Peter Cox (2006 ref) says “I have been told by my informant that there is another plant of the Lady in Victoria” and I think he may be referring to John Nieuwesteeg’s clone. John (2003 ref) said “...I believe I have ‘Lady Edgeworth David’....”.
So, there may be two roses: A singly-borne rose which the Johnston’s found at Rookwood, NSW; and the cluster-flowered rose from John Niewesteeg, Victoria. Does anybody know where John got his rose from? (My plant came from Victoria and seems to be the cluster-flowered version.)
If there are any internet searchers out there who can really delve into old newspapers, it would be good to get an early reference to single or cluster flowering for ‘Lady Edgeworth-David’.
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Yes, that's one possibility among several.
Another is that LED produces single flowers when struggling and (very widely spaced) clusters when flourishing. A related problem is that all the roses shown on HMF are growing in what's left of Mediterranean climate in southern Australia. The ones we hear about were grown in a China type climate, now becoming outright monsoonal.
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Help! HMF has deleted my initial post. Can that be reversed? It read:
Peter Cox (89 in four weeks' time) writes:
"One nursery at Dural grew 'Warrawee' which I found to be a popular rose; and Roy Rumsey did for a time grow 'Lady Edgeworth David' and 'Warrawee'. (We also grew 'Warrawee' on our nursery at Thirlmeer 1979–94.) I did however acquire a plant of 'Lady Edgeworth David' from an HRIA member living on the NSW Central Coast that was given to him by Roy Rumsey with the comment 'You can have this plant. It is not worth growing commercially.'
"There is a photo of this rose on page 26 of [my] "Australian Roses". Whereas the colours match [the photos on Help Me Find], the form of the flower differs. The flower [photographed for "Australian Roses"] opens flat, cupped much like 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and singly: yours are in clusters and [mine] could never be called floriferous or a vigorous rose. I never propagated this rose as it had little vigour."
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Not as a rule. I might have pressed DELETE instead of REPLY but wasn't conscious of doing so. However I took a copy of it and put it in a word doc so that I could formulate some sort of reply to you. Here is your initial comment
2015. Feb 25. Eric Timewell comment on HMF
Peter Cox (89 in four weeks' time) writes:
"One nursery at Dural grew 'Warrawee' which I found to be a popular rose; and Roy Rumsey did for a time grow 'Lady Edgeworth David' and 'Warrawee'. (We also grew 'Warrawee' on our nursery at Thirlmeer 1979–94.) I did however acquire a plant of 'Lady Edgeworth David' from an HRIA member living on the NSW Central Coast that was given to him by Roy Rumsey with the comment 'You can have this plant. It is not worth growing commercially.'
"There is a photo of this rose on page 26 of [my] "Australian Roses". Whereas the colours match [the photos on Help Me Find], the form of the flower differs. The flower [photographed for "Australian Roses"] opens flat, cupped much like 'Souvenir de la Malmaison' and singly: yours are in clusters and [mine] could never be called floriferous or a vigorous rose. I never propagated this rose as it had little vigour."
................... Far out! Your comment has just appeared magically again.
I am going to give this up and go out and buy a pair of knitting needles! Can't (under)stand this technology.
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Reply
#6 of 12 posted
26 FEB 15 by
Jane Z
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unbelievably perhaps I can only find 1 reference to the rose in the mainstream media, from a national weekly womens magazine in 1942, (with 'malmaison' reference).
I did grow 2 plants, (miserable unhappy little specimens) of the JN LED & suspect they were the same as the Rookwood plant.
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Thanks Jane. Despite it not saying much, I've added that reference.
My plant is not all that happy either. But I have a perennial hope that maybe next year / season, I'll give them the right treatment and then all the roses will be wonderful.
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Dear friends, I know talk is cheap. But both Lubra and Lady Edgeworth David respond to drip watering in summer and heavy feeding in spring and autumn. They should be bushes five feet high with four-inch blooms at least. That Alister Clark thing about roses bred to survive in hot Australian summers is definitely not to the point. Of course buds will take a long time to form because there are so many petals.
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Difficult... Patricia's soil is rose-unfriendly, and we suspect the same applies to the bed at Renmark which houses the early Aus-breds - and is killing yet another plant of Midnight Sun. I hope there's one in Victoria.
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The Midnight Sun at Bacchus Marsh died of thirst a month ago. I pray that John Nieuwesteeg still has the original. I think it's a superb rose by any standard. I'd love to have an entrance hedge of it, if only I had the garden to go with it.
The Morwell soil is appalling. But since Lubra got regular watering and feeding there it's leapt to five feet.
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Today (29 March 2015) I saw 'Lady Edgeworth David' near Warragul (annual rainfall 40 inches) and again, roses from the same budwood at Bacchus Marsh (rainfall 20 inches). The Warragul rose is cupped and even, like the 2002 photo on the cover of the journal of Heritage Roses. The Bacchus Marsh plants are a wind- and sun-blasted mess. I think we are dealing with one rose responding to friendly versus hostile conditions, not two roses as it might have appeared.
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I think there were two roses initially. but Jane Zammit (Reply 6 of 9) grew them both and suspected they were the same.
No. 1.
I am reading old correspondence and have found a Aug 11, 2005 email from a friend as follows:
"Talked with Damien Nieuwesteeg today - he walked out to John a couple of times to check facts - seems that JN found his Lady Edgeworth David about 15-20 years [c1987?] ago at a neighbours property at Wandin and is 99% sure it is correct id.:"
No. 2.
Found at Rookwood c.1983 by Val and Graeme Johnston (possibly from the "Nellie Gain" grave. or the “Rosebud Maisie”/”Samuel Maisey” grave). Passed to Roy Rumsey and then to Peter Cox.
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Dear Patricia, just to be clear, both the roses I reported on came from John Nieuwesteeg.
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Thank you Eric. We love clarity.
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This rose should be four inches (10 cm) across. If you're getting less, feed more.
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Thank you for sharing your expertise Eric.
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I've put up a new photo of Lady Edgeworth David which may look rather a mess: a very double flower just beginning to open. But the point is that it has grown and opened entirely in the shade, dappled at best. Also, it hasn't balled, which reminds us that balling is a humidity problem, not a light problem. 6 October 2015.
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Information from Eric Timewell in his June 21, 2015 comment under 'Lubra':
He [Stan Nieuwesteeg] did get from John [Nieuwesteeg] 'Lady Edgeworth David' (same source as the Bacchus Marsh one)
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