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'L'Ouche' rose Reviews & Comments
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Initial post
23 FEB 21 by
 Nadene
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There is a group planting of L'Ouche in the Rex Hazlewood Garden, Canberra. These roses were badly damaged in a severe hail storm January 2020 and had to be pruned back hard. This year the roses are struggling and not happy or healthy. I don't remembering them producing flowers like the photos below.
Although I was initially confident that they were L'Ouche there has also been reference to Souvenir de la Malmaison.
I see that there is reference to this rose possibly being a Bourbon. I have been learning that Bourbon rose flowers can do this. I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts or feed back that this is L'Ouche.
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#1 of 4 posted
23 FEB 21 by
HubertG
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I grow 'L'Ouche' and have never seen a flower like that on my plant. Perhaps it's a sport? It's quite appealing really.
Edit: No, probably not a sport as I can see the unusual flower on two bushes and that's extremely unlikely. The third photo of the pink flower might pass for 'L'Ouche',
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The leaves don't look like a China. I'd guess you have the same as everybody else; I don't know whether it's Louise Odier or another Bourbon.
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#4 of 4 posted
23 FEB 21 by
Nadene
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Hi Margaret, There is a Louise Odier in a near by garden bed. I will compare them on my next garden visit.
Up date: I took some photos to compare and the rose we think L'Ouch is definitely different to Louise Odier.
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#3 of 4 posted
23 FEB 21 by
Nadene
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There are four plants in total and each one has produced both the normal flower and distorted flower. They have all done this at the same time. The garden bed behind it which I'm also trying to sort out has a rose that looks like L'Ouche and has also produced this type of flower. I really cant remember seeing it before on these roses and can only think its a stress reaction to the hail damage and heavy prune. It does look very pretty.
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I'm not seeing yellow edges on any of the photos. Does anyone have one with yellow edges or petal base, and which grows like a China?
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#1 of 6 posted
19 OCT 18 by
HubertG
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Nope, no yellow whatsoever. I just assumed it's the wrong rose, but what a glorious rose it is. Mine rarely repeats.
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#2 of 6 posted
19 OCT 18 by
HubertG
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The Rosenzeitung says it's a good forcing rose and cut rose, which doesn't really match either.
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#3 of 6 posted
19 OCT 18 by
jedmar
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It should be yellow undertones (onglet jaune)
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Sounds like a file should be set up for "L'Ouche - in commerce as", and all the photos transferred across.
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#5 of 6 posted
20 OCT 18 by
HubertG
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Although, if there is no other 'L'Ouche' alternative, why bother? Maybe just make a note in the description page that it might not be the real deal?
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#6 of 6 posted
20 OCT 18 by
jedmar
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I found the reference below to be interesting both from a word-origin point-of-view, but also because if l'ouche means 'small garden', it could imply that a rose named 'L'Ouche' is suitable for a small garden. Of course, the rose could have been named for a place name, but I like the notion of advertising the advantage of a rose's petite stature with its name...
Since the reference doesn't refer to the rose itself, I didn't think it really belonged in the references section, but thought someone else might find it of interest.
Virginia
From 'Revue Horticole', 1 Septembre 1903, p.407:
"LES MOTS JARDIN, JARDINAGE ET HORTICULTURE. ÉTUDE HISTORIQUE ET ÉTYMOLOGIQUE" by Georges Gibault
L’ouche était un jardin de petite dimension, fermé de haies ou entouré de fossés, analogue au courtil. Son nom doit venir du latin ulgiæ dérivé de uliginem, bouc, fange, c'est-à-dire terre humide et fertile. Il y a en France de nombreuses localités dont les noms rappellent les terres cultivées dites ouches: Ouchy, Oches, Ouches, Loches, etc., la vallée d’Ouches, près Dijon. Ouche se disait autrefois dans la région parisienne. Argenteuil, localité de la banlieue de Paris, a conservé une rue des Ouches. Ce terme est d'un usage courant dans le Maine-et Loire, la Vendée, le Poitou. l'Aunis, le Berry. George Sand, berrichonne qui afl'ectionnait les vieilles locutions de sa province, en a fait usage dans un de ses jolis romans champêtres.
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The (or a ) rose sold in Australia as L'Ouche behaves much more like a Bourbon than a China, waving long arms. How big does it grow elsewhere?
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In the photos section, one of the ones from Petals and Buds in SA is captioned "With a heavenly scent and a willingness to bloom and bloom, a top little rose." Maybe the 'little rose' reference indicates a rose of small stature in SA. Maybe there are a few forms going around here too. Mine came from MD. Newly planted yesterday...
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It's been suggested that what Ruston's had as L'Ouche was in fact Louise Odier. I can see how that could happen, alphabetically; but it may have been the source of budwood for other nurseries.
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I bought 'L'Ouche' some years ago from the (highly reputable) nursery La Campanella. The longer it lived in my garden, the less it looked to me like a China and the more like a Bourbon, specifically, 'Louise Odier'. I don't know where La Campanella got its mother plant from. It is certainly interesting, then, to find this discussion here on HMF.
'Louise Odier' seems to go around in disguise a lot. I received it twice as 'Jacques Cartier', if I remember correctly, once from a nursery and once as cuttings from a gardener who had it under that name. I would guess that his original plant came from the same nursery that my misnamed plant came from.
Additional note: Is there anyone who sells a 'L'Ouche' that is actually a China and can make a fair claim to be the original variety? I seem to remember seeing it in the Antique Rose Emporium catalog quite a few years ago now; in fact, that's where I first heard of this rose.
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I have looked at the photos of the hips in the 'Louise Odier'' listing and mine don't look the same. Mine did not go red, as shown in some photos, but stayed yellow, and mine were less symmetrical and more pear shaped than the ones shown, tapering more slowly towards the peduncle. These may be superficial differences that will vary in time. Don has listed photos of the seeds and has stated in the past that the phenotype of the seed is strongly determined by the seed parent and so represents a good diagnostic feature. I didn't grab a photo of the hips on mine but I did collect the seeds with a view to germinating a few. Here is a photo of the seeds I collected from my "L 'Ouche". These have been stored for about 4 weeks now in a paper envelope so are quite dry. For comparison, here is a link to Don's photo of LO's seeds: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.106952 . Growth of mine is very unChina-like and very Bourbon-like.. long arching whippy canes.
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