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'Madame de Watteville' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 129-915
most recent 1 MAY SHOW ALL
Initial post 3 DEC 21 by Margaret Furness
Would someone who grows "Kombacy Marianne" please comment on whether they have ever seen hips on it.
I note that Mme De Watteville has three descendants, as seed parent.
Reply #1 of 14 posted 3 DEC 21 by HubertG
I've only had my cutting-grown plant for a short time and it's still in a pot but I was very curious to know whether it would set hips and so have looked carefully for stigma and stamen etc in most of its flowers. Generally they weren't formed but in one flower there were several normal-looking stigma and I pollinated them using pollen at hand. It seemed to take and swell quite quickly as if a normal hip would develop, but unfortunately recent wet weather caused it to start browning and it rotted off. In my limited experience, my speculation is that hips won't set naturally very often but it's quite possible that careful artificial fertilisation might produce some hips. I'd be curious to know others' experience too.
Reply #2 of 14 posted 3 DEC 21 by Patricia Routley
I don’t think I have ever seen a hip, but can’t guarantee that. I like to deadhead this plant and will tie a bit of ribbon to it to alert me to watch for anything.
Reply #3 of 14 posted 3 DEC 21 by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
Mme de Watteville also has a descendant listed, as pollen parent.
Reply #4 of 14 posted 5 AUG by HubertG
I noticed that my winter flowers this year had relatively normal looking stigma and there seems to be a hip developing on one at the moment, I'd say about two months old and it's rather oval-shaped.
Reply #5 of 14 posted 5 AUG by Margaret Furness
For the next edition of the Mystery Roses booklet (which will only be on-line), I'm asking those who grow any of them to let me know if they're seed-fertile. I don't know whether a hip set in winter will ever ripen. Anyway, if the hip looks like it will persist, I'd love a photo of it, please.
Reply #6 of 14 posted 8 AUG by HubertG
Margaret, here's the hip on my plant. It isn't large; just 13mm across and about 20mm long. I suspect that there is a seed or two in there otherwise it would not have remained on the plant, which is still a young cutting-grown plant in a pot. If it ripens or falls off I'll let you know what it contains. Please feel free to use the photo, Margaret, if you think it's worthwhile.
Reply #7 of 14 posted 8 AUG by Margaret Furness
Thank you! I'll be interested to see if anything comes of it.
Reply #8 of 14 posted 11 AUG by billy teabag
You are a hip-whisperer HubertG! I have checked thousands of spent blooms on our plant over the years and have yet to find anything that didn't dry up and drop off. Yours look promising.
Reply #9 of 14 posted 12 AUG by jedmar
Reassigned your two hip photos to "Kombacy Marianne"
Reply #10 of 14 posted 12 AUG by HubertG
Thank you billy teabag and jedmar. Nothing may come of the hip but the fact that it has stayed on for this long is encouraging. I noticed yesterday on my plant five new shoots growing from the abscission layer from where an old flower stem fell off. I did think it was interesting enough to post a photo of it, so I'll try to do that tomorrow.
Reply #11 of 14 posted 1 MAY by Margaret Furness
Did you get any seeds from the hip?
Reply #12 of 14 posted 1 MAY by HubertG
Margaret, sorry I forgot to follow up on this. In short, no, there were no seeds in the hip. It started to blacken prematurely and there was nothing inside that even approached looking like seeds. I was a little disappointed because I got my hopes up. I just posted a couple of photos, for what it's worth.
Reply #13 of 14 posted 1 MAY by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
And Mme de Watteville has three offspring listed, as seed parent. Hmmm.
Reply #14 of 14 posted 1 MAY by HubertG
Maybe only two offspring as a seed parent if the 1911 'The Garden' reference to 'Else Schüle' being a sport of 'Mme. de Watteville' is correct. I wouldn't doubt that under ideal conditions "Kombacy Marianne" might set a few hips with a few seeds. I think the relative lack of offspring of 'Mme. de Watteville' supports that theory that "Kombacy Marianne" is that rose.
Discussion id : 128-883
most recent 5 NOV 22 SHOW ALL
Initial post 22 AUG 21 by Give me caffeine
One of my cuttings (originally bagged February 12, 2021) has just put out its first flower. Not much scent at all. Pleasant enough, but fairly faint. I'm not sure if this is due to the small size of the plant (about 40 cm) but it's definitely not a strong or even moderate scent at this stage.
Reply #1 of 3 posted 20 OCT 21 by HubertG
I had the same experience. My first bloom from a cutting-grown plant had a really refined, sweet fragrance with hints of freesia but it was quite faint most of the time. It seems that the quality of the scent is there but not the quantity, at least for me with its first flower. I hope it improves too because I liked the scent.
Reply #2 of 3 posted 4 NOV 22 by Give me caffeine
Getting some more blooms now, on more developed plants, and scent seems to be better. I still wouldn't call it strong (mild to moderate, depending how good your nose is) but it is very pleasant.
Reply #3 of 3 posted 5 NOV 22 by HubertG
I wouldn't call the scent strong either but it is moderately strongish for Tea Rose standards. It's very nice though and it has helped convince me, besides other factors, that this foundling is in fact 'Mme. de Watteville'.
Discussion id : 132-602
most recent 29 APR 22 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 29 APR 22 by Margaret Furness
This post deleted by user.
Discussion id : 121-380
most recent 3 OCT 20 SHOW ALL
Initial post 6 MAY 20 by Margaret Furness
My name is on the summary as discoverer of "Kombacy Marianne", but it needs to be replaced by Guillot (fils) as the breeder of Mme de Watteville.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 6 MAY 20 by Patricia Routley
Everything looks okay with this file Margaret. Guillot is listed.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 7 MAY 20 by Margaret Furness
If you search for Mme de Watteville, it comes up with:
Tea. White, salmon-pink shading, pink edges. [Cream, pink edges.]. Strong fragrance. Large, double (17-25 petals), borne mostly solitary, cupped, flat, ruffled bloom form. Blooms in flushes throughout the season. USDA zone 6b through 9b (default). Margaret Furness.
I don't want to take Guillot's credit!
Reply #3 of 8 posted 7 MAY 20 by Patricia Routley
Not in my screen. I’ll copy and paste what I see:

'Madame de Watteville' rose photo
Photo courtesy of HubertG
Madame de Watteville
Commercially available
• "Kombacy Marianne":

HMF Ratings:
9 favorite votes.
White, near white or white blend Tea.
Bred by Jean-Baptiste André (fils) Guillot (1827-1893) (France, 1883).
Introduced in Australia by C. F. Newman and Sons - Adelaide in 1894 as 'Madame de Watteville'.

Admin, can you help Margaret please?
Reply #4 of 8 posted 7 MAY 20 by HMF Admin
This is an error caused by a discrepancy between this plant's summary vs detail information which "should" never differ. We'll take a look to see how it happened in this case.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 7 MAY 20 by Margaret Furness
Thank you.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 30 SEP 20 by kai-eric
patricia, might you add one feature that was reported by mr. jäger in his 'rosenlexikon' of 1936 referring to it as having blooms in the tulip style. and it has, indeed! from a distance these cupped and more elongated flowers with their nearly cavernous center can look like a bunch of tulips when not fully expanded.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 30 SEP 20 by Patricia Routley
Sure. Done. It is those winged butterfly guard petals that I notice most.
Reply #8 of 8 posted 3 OCT 20 by Margaret Furness
My name is still coming up as the breeder/discoverer.
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