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'Madame de Watteville' rose Reviews & Comments
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This is currently flowering very similar to Mme de Watteville (Fineschi) in our garden
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That's intriguing. But looking at some of the illustrations on the Mme de Watteville file, there must be more than one rose using the Mme de Watteville name - Dirk Rojan's photo couldn't be "Kombacy Marianne" as it grows for me.
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But David Elliott’s photo of ‘Mme. De Watteville’ of June 21, 2011 in Lyon is so similar to the weather-damaged and spotty petalled photo of January 23, 2007 that I have uploaded into “Kombacy Marianne”.
In the MdW comments Kai-eric has included a reference in which “ ‘Mme de Watteville’ is classified into one of three subgroups of the non-climbing tea section, called 'Groupe B. - Comtesse De Labarthe', “
and I have a Feb 5, 2009 note from you in my file that David Ruston thought “Kombacy Marianne” is of the ‘Comtesse de Labarthe’ family.
Besides, there is a ‘Mme. De Watteville’ 1894 reference to the outer petals being winged or butterfly petals and I certainly see that similarity to the photos of “Kombacy Marianne” in my file.
I think “Kombacy Marianne” is ‘Mme de Watteville’ and I thank you and your family sincerely for preserving this rose in your old family garden – and then sharing it around.
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I'm uncomfortable with the references which say Mme de W is creamy-yellow with pink edges. That would fit better for "Bishop's Lodge Ah Mow". There are similarities between these two foundlings, "Kombacy Marianne" being the stronger grower. It also has longer stems according to David Ruston, who sometimes combines them in arrangements.
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I am confident enough that "Kombacy Marianne" is the real 'Mme. de Watteville' to put it in my garden records. OK, OK - with the obligatory question marks - as ?'Mme. de Watteville'?
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She meant that "Kombacy Marianne" came from my great-grandmother's garden. It grows well there and at Renmark, both of which have red sandy soil and hot dry summers (not much winter rainfall). In my garden, with slightly acid clay soil and much more winter rain, it isn't happy.
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I'm not drawing any conclusions, this is just an observation. I will compare Ah Mow when its bigger
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in 'les plus belles roses au début du XXème siècle, société nationale d'horticulture de france, 1912', "mme de watteville" is classified into one of three subgroupes of the non-climbing tea section, called
'Groupe B. - Comtesse De Labarthe', caracterized in the following way
' Rameaux minces, presque pas d'aiguillons, feuille petite; fleure petite, coloris variant du rose tendre au rouge, jamais de jaune pur. Très florifère.'
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Thanks for creating the entry for this rose Patricia.
I've uploaded some photos.
If any Tea lovers have time, could you take a look at them to see if you recognise this foundling? If you start from the oldest pic and work your way back, there's a progression from Spring, through summer to late Autumn.
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'Mme. Marthe du Bourg', Bernaix, 1889 in The Old Rose Advisor reads as though it may be a contender.
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Thanks for that Patricia - I'll have a closer look at that one.
'Mme Marthe du Bourg' was in Australia in the early 1900s. Not found on a lot of catalogues to date (Hunter, Sydney in 1903 is the only one I've found it on so far), but John Lockley mentioned it in the 1916 edition of 'Rose Growing Made Easy' p199 (Blush white; edged shell pink; excellent), and it was on the Adelaide-Botanic-Garden-c1917-found-in-the-shed-inventory.
Other 'cream edged pink' Tea roses in the Lockley list are 'E. von Kesselstatt' (Cream ground, highly suffused and overlaid with rosemadder and carmine; one of the very best autumn and winter decoratives. Include this rose among your first purchases); and 'Mme de Watteville' (White, bordered with rosy-purple).
(I'll add these refs to HMF.)
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#3 of 6 posted
10 OCT 09 by
 jedmar
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Was 'Agathe Nabonnand' in Australia?
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Yes - we've found it on nursery catalogues from the early 1890s to the early 1900s.
I'll check it out. Thanks.
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#5 of 6 posted
10 OCT 09 by
kai-eric
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from 'ketten frères, catalogue 1894':
Unique(guillot 70)-fond blanc,largement bordé de rose pourpre très vif,parfois rose
La nuancée(guillot 76)-blanchâtre,pourtour des petals rose,passant à un rose saumon vif, fond jaune cuivré, moyenne,pleine,odorante
Pearl rivers(dingee&conard)-blanc d’ivoire délicatement nuance et bordé de rose clair, grande,pleine,très odorante.
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