HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Zi Yan Fei Wu' rose References
Newsletter  (May 2015)  Page(s) 13. Vol 36, No. 3.  Includes photo(s).
 
Peter Holmes, President Bermuda Rose Society.
"Pacific" ("Maggie"). Originally known as the "Cabbage Rose", it is said to have been given to Bermudian sea captain Samuel Conyers Nelmes (1777-1867) by a French sea captain whom he assisted while on a voyage in the Pacific Ocean. Nelmes planted the rose in the garden of his daughter, Mrs. J. C. Lightbourn, at Grasmere, Riddell's Bay. Visiting rosarians have agreed it is probably a Hybrid Perpetual and recently it has been established that the same rose is known as "Maggie" in the United States. Bermuda rosarians have also seen it in Fiji and in several Caribbean islands. In India a similar rose is called "Kakinada Red".
Newsletter  (Feb 2015)  Page(s) 8.  
 
Tuan Ching. The 2014 Indian Rose Federation Conference.
Among the many rosarians who spoke were.... and Dr. Guoliang Wang from china (on the Chinese rose "Baoxiang", equivalent to "Maggie" in the west)
Magazine  (2014)  Includes photo(s).
 
Old Rose Survivors. Wild and Untamed. (A special edition of Rosa Mundi)

p75 Leo Watermeir.  New Orleans.       
The "found" rose seen most often in old New Orleans neighborhoods is probably "Maggie". originally named by Texas A & M University's Dr. Bill Welch for a rose he found growing in northeastern Louisiana.  It's a healthy, repeat bloomer with very fragrant, fully double, cerise-pink flowers.  Thought possibly to be a China/Bourbon mix, it can be grown as a shrub or small climber.    Photo. 

p88 Photo "Maggie" (photo by Malcolm Manners)
p88 Photo "Kakinada Red" (photo by Viru Viraraghavan)

p89 Malcolm M. Manners.  Solving Historic Rose Puzzles at Florida Southern College.
In 2011-2012, student Ashley Wilson worked on the problem of the rose we grow as "Maggie".  Apparently the same rose is grown in Bermuda as "Pacific". In India as "Kakinada Red", and it is thought that the rose may actually be Geschwind's 'Eugene E. Marlitt'.  While we acquired a preserved sample from Sangerhausen, unfortunately the 'Eugene E. Marlitt' DNA did not purify well, so could not be included in the study - a great disappointment!  But comparison of the U.S.'s "Maggie". Bermuda's "Pacific", and India's "Kakinada Red" showed them all to be the same rose.  We still hope to work with better documented 'Eugene E. Marlitt' tissue soon, for further comparison. 
Website/Catalog  (2013)  
 
https://fshs.org/proceedings-o/2013-vol-126/FSHS_Vol_126/273-275.pdf

Proc. Fla. State Hort. Soc. 126:273–275. 2013.
A Comparison of Suspected “Maggie” Roses Utilizing Randomly Amplified Polymorphic (RAPD) DNA Analysis 

......Based on the histories of these roses and the genetic data pre- sented here, the rose found by William Welch, which he named “Maggie,” is not a unique hybrid. If the histories are accurate, “Pacific” was introduced to Bermuda over 150 years ago via the captain of a French ship, and “Kakinada Red” has been growing in India for several centuries (Lowery, 2006). It is possible that the rose we call “Maggie” was originally from India, transported to Bermuda, and then brought to the U.S. Or “Maggie” may have come directly from India. This scenario precludes the possibility that “Maggie” is the same rose as ‘Eugenie E. Marlitt’, and nullifies the claims by many breeders and nurseries that they are the same rose originally bred by Geschwind. 

......
Book  (2011)  Page(s) 33.  Includes photo(s).
 
Gregg Lowery.  "Maggie" - A Global Mystery Rose. 
.....A rose apparently identical to Maggie" was known in Sweden, India, Germany, Florida, Slovakia, and Bermuda under many names - 'Eugen E. Marlitt', 'Mme. Eugene Marlitt', 'Julius Fabianics de Misefa', "Pacific". and "Kakinada Red".    This rose was believed to date from the mid- or late nineteenth century.  Hungarian rose breeder Rudolf Geschwind first introduced it as 'Julius Fabianics de Misefa', but it was later distributed as 'Eugen E. Marlitt'.  In America that name was feminized to 'Mme Eugen E. Marlitt' - a reference to the pen name of its namesake, Eugenie John, a German novelist in the 1870s.  The rose was popular in India, where it was considered to be hundreds of years old, it was sold under various commercial names.  In Bermuda one historical document records its having come to the islands with a sea captain in 1867.  The Bermuda story seems entirely credible, as Rudolph Geschwind developed a breeding stock rose in 1865, which he used repeatedly in his work.  This rose may have entered into commerce at that time and been widely distributed. 
For all its globe-hopping, "Maggie" has proven a remarkably adaptable rose, thriving in climates ranging from tropical to cold-winter temperate. For one hundred years or more it has been praised for its hardiness and generosity of bloom.  It is indeed a Rose for all climates around the world.  Inspired by an article about this unique rose in Rosa Mundi, Liesbeth Cooper of Bermuda contracted a DNA study that was performed by Anne Bruneau of the University of Montreal in Canada.  This 2009 study suggested that all the collected forms of "Maggie" under the rose's various names, appear to share significant DNA, thus confirming the morphological comparisons done by a number of rosarians.  And so the mystery of "Maggie", this great old rose, continues to be unravelled. 
Article (magazine)  (2007)  Page(s) 404.  
 
Table 1. Comparison of key volatile components in representative cultivated Chinese roses and species. [adsorption volume by Solid Phase Microextraction (peak area, x10')]

'Zi Yan Fe Wu'
Citronellol 0.27
Magazine  (2006)  Page(s) Vol. 21, no. 1,.  
 
Erich Unmuth. Rudolf Geschwin
p8......Beside these climbers there are some interesting smaller roses - ..... and “Maggie”, a rose that seems to be very familiar to American rose lovers. I got this rose about 15 years ago from a Texan friend as a mystery rose, perhaps identical to a lost Geschwind rose called Eugenie E. Marlitt, which was introduced in the United States in 1908. Comparing it over the years with numerous roses in the Sangerhausen and Cavriglia collections, Martin Weingart identified it as Julius Fabianics de Misefa, a rose that does very well in cold areas like Sweden as well as in the hot climate of Texas.

p32. ibid. Photos.  It remains a mystery who bought Julius Fabianics de Misefa to the United States, why it was renamed to 'Eugene E. Marlitt', disappeared quite soon, arose nearly 70 years later as "Maggie". 

Gregg Lowery. Maggie – a Rose Mystery.
p30.  In the heat of July, Viru and Girija's e-mail arrived along with a careful review of the botanical characteristics of the rose.  I compared them with two plants in our garden, one that grows compactly in full sun, one that sprawls tall and broad under the shade of a black oak.  This latter plant grows just like the three plants I was shown by Rosemary Sims years ago in an old churchyard in the historic Bywater district of New Orleans. Raised from the same mother plant, my two "Maggie"s varied in thorniness, size, leaf color, shape and length, and in the coloration of the flower, but within a range that growing conditions seemed to account for.   In early 20th century American catalogues, 'Mme Eugene Marlitt' was often referred to as thornless, a trait noted by Viru and Girija on "Kakinada Red".  On my plants of "Maggie" I found that thorniness varied on the stems within each, but nearly naked stems were abundant on both.  The blue-green color on the foliage of the Indian rose was found on both of mine, and another trait I observed in Viru's photos, a tendency to have ochre or greenish-gold tinting along the midribs of the leaves and sometimes on the thorns.  After close examination, I cincluded that "Maggie" and "Kakinada Red" were the same. 

p32. Ibid. This all seemed to be resolving nicely but for one thing: nurseryman Martin Weingart had uncovered a rare Geschwind hybrid called ‘Julius Fabianics de Misefa’, introduced in 1902, that proved to be identical to “Maggie” as well!.

p35. ibid.  What we don’t know is whether this name [Mme. Eugene E. Marlitt] was given to the rose by Geschwind or whether it was given as a (perhaps American) replacement for the more complex name, Julius Fabianics de Misefa........

p38.  ibid.  if "Kakinada Red" and "Maggie" are hundreds of years old, then they are clearly not hybrids of Rudolf Geschwind. 
Magazine  (2006)  Page(s) . Vol 21, No. 1.  Includes photo(s).
 
p37 Gregg Lowery: "Maggie" - A Rose Mystery......
While I grow more convinced that "Maggie" is indeed a Geschwind rose and strongly suspect that it is 'Eugen E. Marlitt', I cannot easily set aside some apocryphal stories that suggest this rose is much older than 100 years.   Liesbeth Cooper recounts that one of the found roses of the Bermuda Rose Society is "Pacific", first described by Mrs. Laura Pattisson, who wrote in The Bermuda Garden that her great-grandfather, Captain Samuel Nelmes (1777-1867), had been given the rose by the captain of a French ship in distress in the Pacific. Her family called this the "Pacific Rose" which many rosarians upon comparison believe is "Maggie". ....Did "Pacific" come to Bermuda from India via French and British sea captains
Book  (15 Oct 2001)  Page(s) 99.  
 
Marijke Peterich. The Preservation of Old Garden Roses in Bermuda.
"[Bermuda] Pacific". This rose is said to have been given to Bermudian sea captain Samuel Conyers Nelmes (who lived from 1777 to 1867) by a French sea captain whom he assisted on a voyage in the Pacific. Captain Nelmes planted the rose in the garden of his daughter Mrs. Lightbourne, at Grasmere, Riddels Bay. It is a slow-growing, awkward bush that often puts out long canes which can be trained to climb or can be pegged down. The dark green foliage is very prone to blackspot. The clusters of very fragrant four inch (10 cm) velvety blooms are produced continuously on short stems and are a dark shade of red. The rose "Maggie" grown in the United States is the same.
Book  (1999)  Page(s) 387.  
 
"Maggie". Syn. "Pacific". Old. Bourbon. Medium red. Repeat-flowering. This rose was found by William Welch in Louisiana and has become very popular in the USA. Most agree that there is some China in its background. The full, globular, bright red flowers have overlapping petals that darken in cool weather. There is a pronounced spicy scent and it makes a fine cut flower. It has a bushy growth habit, reaching 4-6 ft (1.2 - 1.8m) high, is almost thornless and does well in rich soil. This rose, which makes a wonderful hedge or pillar rose was found by Welch at a farm of his wife’s grandmother, Maggie. Some claim it is one of the roses created by Rudolf Geschwind, like ‘Gruss an Teplitz’ or ‘Eugene E. Marlitt’. Zones 5-10. Found in 1980. Parentage unknown.
© 2020 HelpMeFind.com