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'LCXRNANO' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 52-307
most recent 6 JAN 22 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 16 FEB 11 by Michael Garhart
A lot of the Rosa californica hybrids seem to be repeaters when, in generality, they should not be. However, it has been noted in many older books that its among the few species to regularly repeat after its first flush, as well as pass on repeating traits. Personally, it has different mechanics than others species, and it seems to be able to pass these mechanics on sometimes. Some books have noted, and I have personally noted in some hybrids, that the internode spacing is unuique for a cinn. family type.
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Reply #1 of 13 posted 16 FEB 11 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
HI Michael, I still don't know what to think about this seedling. It seems to have some evidence of hybridity.

The RBXLCRNANO I sent to you definitely is not what I would have expected from that cross. I think it could be evidence for r. webbiana 'nanothamnus' influence.
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Reply #2 of 13 posted 2 NOV 14 by styrax
What were the evidence of hybridity? I don't see much of it considering how weird webbiana is. Have you made any other seedlings out of webbiana? I am considering getting Lilac Charm this year, maybe I will try this cross in the near future.
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Reply #3 of 13 posted 2 NOV 14 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
'Lilac Charm' accepts almost any pollen but offspring usually have disease problems which are difficult to resolve in subsequent generation. See 'Lila Banks'.

LCXRNANO showed vague signs of hybridity in growth habit among other things. Indications were subtle.

Often in wide crosses like this, one parent gets buried behind the phenotype of the other. See 'Floradora'.

Keep in mind, often genetic contribution is not equitable in offspring.

Subsequent generations showed some anomalies which to me indicate possible hybridity.

For instance, look at the lineage and phenotype of this seedling.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.58041.0
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Reply #4 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by Kim Rupert
I seriously question the ploidy of Lilac Charm. I suspect it's a fertile triploid.
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Reply #5 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Kim, that's something I hadn't considered.
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Reply #6 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by Kim Rupert
It makes a world of sense. Look at some of its results and what its supposed parentage is. I've questioned that parentage for a very long time. I raised too many very similar results from Dairy Maid and Sterling Silver. Now, to find Kayla. Sheri Anne X Violette...imagine the ploidies to play with there!
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Reply #7 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by styrax
It would make sense: triploids can make unreduced gametes, so 3 sets from LC and 1 from R. nano. would explain the heavy Lilac Charm influence
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Reply #8 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
yes
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Reply #9 of 13 posted 1 JAN 22 by Kim Rupert
That's what apparently happened with Golden Angel X R. Californica nana and all of my L56-1 X Minutifolia hybrids. I want as many triploid minis as I can find, but most appear long gone. And, I want Fairy Moss, but only RVR lists it and they don't appear to have propagated it in forever.
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Reply #10 of 13 posted 2 JAN 22 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Why mini?
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Reply #11 of 13 posted 2 JAN 22 by Kim Rupert
To engineer in the smaller, bushy, heavily repeating nature in the foundation of the breeding line. I want smaller plants from the beginning, rather than trying to get what I want into a smaller plant once I've obtained the traits I'm after. It worked for Ralph Moore, so why not?
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Reply #12 of 13 posted 2 JAN 22 by Robert Neil Rippetoe
Minis have many advantages, but I've sometimes regretted using minis after the fact.

Starting with triploids could help get past the dominant miniature blossom size in subsequent generations.
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Reply #13 of 13 posted 6 JAN 22 by Michael Garhart
Personally, I would try to use minis where there is a limited amount of alleles of miniaturism to worry about. I think that is one of the successes with Baby Love as a breeder. It's a triploid (that happens to have a strong color and above average health in many places), where the source of miniaturism is a diploid 3 generations back.

Compare this, for example, to using something like 'Albuquerque Enchantment' (I looked for a random example). It would take a lot more effort to not simply recreate just a miniature or miniature climber.
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