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'Austrian Copper' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 113-522
most recent 29 OCT 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 OCT 18 by Plazbo
Was mistakenly sent this instead of the plain yellow foetida...not a big issue, was primarily interested in the alledged fruity glandular smell of the buds.

The glandular buds do quite strongly smelly of a sweety fruity scent. The unpleasant scent of the follow I haven't detected much of (yet...the one bloom so far isn't in direct sunlight for another hour or so). The very dark (near black) pistils are also interesting.

So far no issues with health (early spring....very wet though)
Reply #1 of 5 posted 13 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Bog off! As the supermarkets say, Buy One Get One free. At sometime your 'Bicolor' will probably start reverting back to plain foetida.
Its fragrance is similar to Rosa fedtschenkoana, not attractive but not totally horrid either.
I tried a plant for the first time last year expecting dreadful blackspot in a climate with cool wet summers. The rose is grown well away from other roses (its only rose companion is 'Agnes' that is growing very well and healthily) near the top of a south-west facing slope where it can take advantage of as much warm sun as possible and excellent drainage. Up until mid-July we had an exceptional hot dry summer but since then there has been a fair share of dampness and heavy dews that we get regardless of how hot it is. The rose grew about five shoots 40CM long and there has been little sign if any of blackspot. We had gales yesterday and again today so most of the leaves have blown off now.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 13 OCT 18 by Plazbo
I assume that is probably true. It's not a big far as wrong plants go it's pretty minor.

Will be interesting to see how blackspot goes (or doesn't) with it here in Sydney Au, spring and autumn (summer is too hot, seems to kill it) is often a high blackspot area.

Either way the glandular buds are very interesting and will be something I will be attempting to bring and enhance to a repeating plant....just may take a few steps and growing out an absurd number of F2.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 13 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton
I was told that by the time, later in the summer, that blackspot tends to take hold it has already made its years growth and will flower well again the following year regardless of how awfulf it might look. I suspect it's proneness to disease might have something to do with trace elements in the soil, particularly boron, as much as the climate has.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 29 OCT 18 by Plazbo
Only two weeks later, but still no BS and there is quite a lot of it in my garden and nearby foetida, it's interesting considering how much blame is placed on this species contribution to BS in moderns.

Also I see what you said earlier about sporting, one cluster had blooms that were half reverted.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 29 OCT 18 by Andrew from Dolton
I'm sure it blackspot is made far worse by the absence of certain trace elements and perhaps lime in the soil.
Discussion id : 111-147
most recent 31 MAY 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 31 MAY 18 by Andrew from Dolton
Newly planted this year Rosa foetida 'Bicolor' is has produced five shoots 30cm long and shows no signs whatsoever of blackspot.
The smell reminds me of the odour that the sheildbug, Palomena prasina, makes when it is distressed or maybe Perigord truffles or the inside of a well worn Wellington boot.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 31 MAY 18 by Margaret Furness
Just think, you could make a fortune selling welly omelettes.
Discussion id : 109-105
most recent 8 MAR 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 8 MAR 18 by Andrew from Dolton
I've just had this rose arrive in the post as I like roses that are historically important rather than beautiful but was always put off by not thinking I could grow it. I'm not sure how a rose from dry arid regions will grow in my climate. The eastern side of my garden slopes steeply toward the south-west and catches all the late evening sun, it is the warmest and driest conditions I have with good air movement too. 'Anges' grows very healthily here reaching 160cm X 140cm in three seasons so I'm going to give it a try.
Discussion id : 97-546
most recent 6 MAR 18 SHOW ALL
Initial post 14 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
A few people have told me that foetida has fragrant foliage. I see it listed as such under Persiana, but not here in this listing. Does anyone know? Supposedly the leaves smell fruity?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 14 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
I've not encountered any "Foetida" variant (Copper, Yellow, Bicolor, etc.) which did not possess the "Juicy Fruit Gum" scent to their peduncles, sepals and new growth tips. That scent can carry through a few generations when bred with the right mate.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by JasonSims1984
Thanks :)
Reply #3 of 11 posted 15 FEB 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
You're welcome! That includes Persian Yellow, the double yellow. It has a luscious fruity smell to those parts.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 6 NOV 17 by Plazbo
Do you know of any examples that have carried the fragrance? Like does Soleil d'Or? I imagine if it did it'd be mentioned so probably isn't. I just haven't found anything with it that doesn't have feotida in its name .
Reply #5 of 11 posted 6 NOV 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Yes, Soliel d'Or does carry that type of plant scent. As you visit nurseries and public gardens, rub the sepals, buds, peduncles and new growth tips of the roses you encounter. You will find a surprising number which express various scents through those parts. Of course, the closer to the scented species they are, usually the stronger those scents are, but they sometimes come through some generations away from the sources. Many OGRs carry differing scents in those parts. One of the things which continues surprising me is how many people who have "years of experience" with roses, have never noticed these sources of scent. Not all roses carry them, but once you begin "molesting" the roses you encounter, I think it will surprise you just how many DO.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Plazbo
Hurray! That possibly alters plans a bit (using a hybrid that has a repeating parent).

In your experience/opinion would crossing with a more glandular plant bring out these scents without molesting (similar to how the sweet briars scent can hang in the air)?

I'm still trying to work out what I'm doing with breeding, foliage fragrance is up there in the interests (along with crested....but Moore's work with that isn't available here in Australia as far as I can tell)
Reply #7 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
I would seem more likely to obtain glandular results with plant scents using glandular parents, rather than those which don't possess the glandular trait, but that isn't an absolute. Add that combining two parents could easily influence not only the type of glandular scent expressed, but also the strength as well as whether it is even expressed or not.

Working with Fedtschenkoana, I observed the plant scents were often passed down, but virtually always in altered scent types. Fedtschenkoana's scent reminds me of "Nobel Fir with hardwood smoke". First generation offspring expressed varying levels of pine, spruce, cedar and further generations altered these not only in strength but also changed what they smelled like. Complete lack of scent in many instances occurred by the third generation, though there were some which still possessed some plant scents. I haven't bred with Foetida, but I would imagine you should see something similar breeding with it.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 6 MAR 18 by Plazbo
I agree, glandular parents would be the way to go it's just a matter of finding them, that info often isn't easily available and seeing the older roses in person generally requires interstate travel....the rose gardens of Sydney are lacking compared with southern states when it comes to older varieties.

The lack of scent by the third generation is the big issue, add in Foetida blackspot troubles, low fertility (if going all the way back to species), lack of juvenile remontancy and it's a bit of a mountain. Soleil d'Or possibly isn't the best option available either but it's the better of the knowns...unless anyone has any suggestions for Pernetiana's with the juicy fruit gum scent to their growing parts.

Possibly worth going to Lady Penzance, at least in theory the pollen should be feotida and whatever LP chromosomes paired up with those....may bring more glandular genes with it. But wouldn't be able to smell the juicy fruit bits over the apple to determine if I even like the juicy fruit bits and no chance of flowers in seedlings for a few years to check sepals,etc is a bit of a "that will take a lot of space"...

I expect to to a lot of line and back crossing any way I's just deciding that first step.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 6 MAR 18 by Rupert, Kim L.
Don't allow that first step to paralyze you. Select several potential mates and pollinate them all. Select the most promising from the bunch and use those observations to help you focus where you believe you should be mining. Unfortunately, with goals such as yours, there are bound to be many dead ends. Spending too much time intellectually determining what the mates should be can cost you much time. Because of the fertility pitfalls you're likely to encounter, selecting your initial parents based upon their fertility and ease of germination will provide you with the evidence needed to narrow your efforts and gain you a great deal of time. Also, collect all the pollen possible and don't be afraid to use it over a long period of time. Under suitable conditions, it can remain viable for a significantly longer period than is generally accepted. Granted, my conditions are likely more conducive to that practice than many others, but it wasn't until I began harvesting every available bloom and holding the pollen a full season, using it on every potential seed parent bloom I was able to make headway with the Minutifolia, Hugonis and now, hopefully, Xanthina, Stellata mirifica, Puzzlement and Spithamea hybrids. Unless you are extremely lucky and can decide on the most beneficial seed parent on your first try, the "shot gun" approach is very likely to provide you with the fastest success. Good luck!
Reply #8 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Margaret Furness
Crested Jewel is in Araluen Botanic Garden in WA - I don't know where they got it from. Probably Melville's nursery before the change of ownership. You could contact Heritage Roses in Aus members to send you pollen.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 7 NOV 17 by Rupert, Kim L.
Margaret, Roy Rumsey was Mr. Moore's Australian agent for a long time. Many of his roses made it to your shores through him. His "Rum 10" was the thornless multiflora he obtained from Mr. Rumsey. Odd, as we've not been able to import from Australia for many decades...
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