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Alkaline clay StrawChicago zone 5a
Discussion id : 104-344
most recent 30 NOV 17 SHOW ALL
Initial post 12 AUG 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Here's my ranking of OWN-ROOT orange roses in scent. The fruity scent is intense in my clay, and the orange-color is deeper in my high magnesium & heavy clay. . All are OWN-ROOT, except for SunDowner (grafted on Dr. Huey), thus the fruity scent is lessened. Orange, yellow, and dark-red roses need more shade from hot sun. OK-TAP means glossy-foliage & need partial shade & but blooms well with alkaline tap-water. NEED RAIN have pale foliage and needs tons of acidic rain to bloom well. OK DRY mean it has vigorous & deep root & more drought tolerant. The below ranking is based on scent of 10 own-root orange roses, from best to least:

1) Versigny - like an apricot pie, delicious & NEED RAIN. 2) Sutter's Gold, famous for its nectarine-scent & OK DRY 3) Bronze Star, same scent as Sutter's Gold, but bigger orange bloom & NEED RAIN 4) Pat Austin, mango and nectarine & OK-TAP & WATER HOG, best in 4 hours of morning sun 5) Anna's Promise: apricot fruity scent, OK-TAP. 6) Crown Princess Magareta, honey and fruit, attracts Japanese Beetles & HUGE CLIMBER & OK DRY 7) Lady of Shalott, Jap. Beetles don't care for its scent & OK DRY 8) King Arthur (Samaritan), moderate fruity & OK-TAP 9) Carding Mill, orange here & sweet myrrh scent & NEED RAIN 10) Strike it Rich: mild fruity & OK DRY

11) Sundowner: mild fruity & OK DRY & OK-TAP grafted on Dr.Huey, but previous 10 are OWN-ROOT roses. 12) Just Joey: OK DRY & OK-TAP grafted on Dr. Huey.

Own-root Sheila's Perfume is coming next week to my garden .. most likely will be orange/pinkish in my clay, will rate its scent later.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 27 AUG 17 by Lavenderlace
Wonderful and very helpful review of fragrances, thanks so much!
Reply #2 of 8 posted 27 AUG 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Lavenderlace: How was hurricane Harvey in your Texas area? I'm glad that you have some cooler temp. Just added Just Joey to the list or orange-roses as #12 .. zero scent as grafted-on-Dr.Huey, but did great during hot & dry. Just Joey had thick-petals that could take full-sun, but it died since Dr.Huey-rootstock didn't like flood & acidic rain.

I moved own-root Sutter's Gold from a Smart-Pot into my clay today. It has shallow-cluster & thin hairy root, definitely prefers loamy soil. The fabric Smart-Pot didn't retain enough moisture for Sutter's Gold. Its leaves are very shiny & glossy: need partial shade & alkaline minerals. Versigny is still in a pot with MG-potting soil, smells just as wonderful as when it was in my clay in 2014. Every time I sniff Versigny, I tell myself, "Wow !! This is heaven" Versigny's scent is floral myrrh in MG-potting soil, but was like a delicious apricot-pie in my clay.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 28 AUG 17 by Lavenderlace
We're very far north almost Z7 so we're fine, but thanks for asking!

Every time I start to think about buying Versigny, I see the HMF description and individual ratings and then I change my mind. I wonder if there's something helpful to the fragrance in your soil? I thought it might be great for you but scentless for me, like Madame IP in my sand! BTW, replaced them with Magnificent Perfume and Amazing Grace and they smell fantastic in the exact same spot.

What about Jude the Obscure for your list of oranges? He's dark apricot here and the scent is consistently one of the best. Or is he a different color for you?
Reply #4 of 8 posted 28 AUG 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Jude is pale yellow in my clay. I'm glad you are safe from hurricane Harvey. This is a "flood" year, with 9 inch. in 24 hours during July for my Chicagoland, then flood in Arizona, and now in Texas. I'm looking out my window, Versigny is 2 1/2 feet tall in a tiny pot, and it's only 3 1/2 month own-root !! When Versigny died few years ago through my zone 5a winter, I dug up the root, and it was woody & chunky. Such THICK roots like Versigny & Madame Isaac Pereire need SOLID minerals for best scent.

Versigny is now in MG-moisture-control potting soil, plus I topped with tiny-colorful-pea-gravels. Pretty pea-gravels are used to top bonsai pots, but it has all the alkaline minerals needed for best scent. Pea-gravels definitely helps with best scent. In 2014 I grew Perle d'Or in a pot, topped with pea-gravel, and the scent was powerful .. one bloom perfumed the entire area. Now I grow a 2nd Perle d'Or in a pot, topped with my clay, and the scent is barely there.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 28 AUG 17 by Lavenderlace
We had the nine inches in 24 hours also last week too! Flash flooding is usually quite hit or miss in our area and sometimes we'll wake up to flash flood warnings and not get a drop of rain. But this time we finally got it (unannounced) and the water receded quite quickly so it was great for the roses.

You are correct on the clay! My only pale Jude is in clay. I'm trying to only grow roses here now that naturally like my climate and soil so I have a feeling that what works super for you will be the opposite for me.

Are you impressed with Sutter's Gold these days? Relative Lemon Spice is super here but I think that the yellow might be lighter than what you like, though it never fades to dingy white, thank goodness.

My favorites are light pinks and lavenders but I seem to keep ending up with peaches and yellows because the fragrance is so good here!
Reply #6 of 8 posted 28 AUG 17 by StrawChicago Alkaline clay 5a
Sutter's Gold is drought-tolerant as own-root. I left its cluster-root in open-air, while prepping the new hole. I was indecisive about the depth of planting, and dug that up twice to fix ... yet the leaves are perky after being moved from pot to clay (lost some roots). Lagerfeld could not take such abuse (also a cluster-root). Lagerfeld has thinner leaves, versus much thicker leaves of Sutter's Gold.

My experience with THICKER LEAVES? They are quite drought-tolerant, such as Betty White (amazing scent, way-better than Frederic Mistral). Both Betty White and Sutter's Gold have dark green & glossy foliage, so they prefer alkaline minerals with higher pH. It's the THIN & GLOSSY leaves which are water-hogs, like Neil Diamond .. broke out in blackspot in full sun & hot & dry. So I moved Neil next to the rainspout, only 4 hours of morning sun, with a plastic edging dug down 6 inch. (to keep the grass out). Saw Neil swimming happily in this "mini-swimming" pool, pumping out 100% clean leaves & buds while being dumped with rain.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 29 AUG 17 by Lavenderlace
Thanks so much for that helpful information!
Reply #8 of 8 posted 30 NOV 17 by ac91z6
Thank you StrawChicago! I've ordered a couple of these (CPM and LoS) and I'm glad to see some water/soil guidelines for our general area! Thank you so much for your reviews of roses!
Discussion id : 69-360
most recent 18 JAN 13 SHOW ALL
Initial post 10 JAN 13 by Oxana
Dear Chicago member! I am very impressed with your roses. I am planning to have some orders based on your comments regarding some of your roses . I am interested in Nahema climbing rose , you mentioned that it is thornless as own root for you , will you tell which rose nursery you bought it from. We are planning a rose gazebo and need thornless roses for that reason , I contact already a couple of nurseries
but they can not warranty they have Nahema as thornless. Thanks a lot, Oxana
Reply #1 of 3 posted 10 JAN 13 by Rupert, Kim L.
Oxana, even the most thornless of roses occasionally produce prickles. I recently took cuttings of my double white Lady Banks rose. Banksiae are considered some of the most "thornless" of roses, yet this one was throwing prickles. My Annie Laurie McDowell hadn't thrown a prickle I ever found in over twenty years, yet last year, I found ONE! Reine des Violettes is generally considered to be thornless, yet it sometimes produces very bristly canes. It honestly isn't in the nature of the rose NOT to have prickles. For those developed from climbing species, they are a climbing mechanism, permitting their canes to hook on to tree branches and other plants for support as they throw themselves through the tree canopy and out into the sun where they can feed themselves, produce their flowers for pollination to perpetuate the species. Perhaps for those which sucker, forming thickets in grasslands and such, they inhibit the grazing habits of animals which would otherwise decimate the plants and lead to their premature extinction? For those with bristly hips, they may even function as other bristly or prickly hips, attaching themselves to animal fur to help distribute their seeds. Birds help distribute the seeds of species such as multiflora which has small "berry like" seeds. So, please don't hold it against a nursery if they can't guaranty their plants of a variety are without prickles. Even if the plant hasn't demonstrated them in decades. one day they WILL!

Banksiae prickles
Reply #2 of 3 posted 18 JAN 13 by Oxana
Dear Rupert ! Thanks a lot for your very professional reply. It is important to understand the nature of a rose and due to your knowledge explanation I can view it at a different angle .
I checked Annie Laurie McDowell rose , it has plenty of good recommendations from gardeners . I do consider to order it as I love fragrant pink and thornless roses. You must be a proud Dad for your baby.

Best wishes,
Reply #3 of 3 posted 18 JAN 13 by Rupert, Kim L.
You're welcome Oxana! Thank you. Yes ma'am, I am very proud of Annie! Thanks, Kim
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