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Clark (1864-1949), Alister
Discussion id : 117-027
most recent 2 JUN 19 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 JUN 19 by Patricia Routley
Below are some Alister Clark numbered seedlings I have noted over the years.

Alister Clark seedling No. 55 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Good.
Alister Clark seedling No. 1327 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Extra good
Alister Clark seedling No. 1380 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Good
“ “ (The Argus. April 11, 1933. Autumn Rose Show.... No. 1380, rose pink, with strong stems and well petalled, also attracted attention [ from Sandie Maclean May 16, 2009]
Alister Clark seedling No. 1621 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Extra good
Alister Clark seedling No. 1653 (ARA 1932-56) is a fine, double-red flowered pillar rose. a seedling that even Mr. Clark admits should be named and given to the public, but something has held it back over the years.
Alister Clark seedling No. 1797 (ARA 1930-57) Velvety dark red, full of colour, perfect form, very promising.
Alister Clark seedling No. 1942 (ARA 1930-57) Pink, deeper shade on back, good shape
Alister Clark seedling No. 2126 (The Age 1933 p11 tentatively called Rusher)
Alister Clark seedling No. 2307 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Good
Alister Clark seedling No. 2335 (ARA 1930-57 Like Gwen Nash
Alister Clark seedling No. 2393 (ARA 1932-56) is a bushy plant with attractive single blooms from R. moyesii.
Alister Clark seedling No. 2706 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Good
Alister Clark seedling No. 2709 (ARA 1934-120) has done well and should be gone on with. Good
Alister Clark seedling No. 2787 (ARA 1931 108-3 at the Ballarat Test Garden) (The Age 1933-p11. Frag, dk red)
Alister Clark seedling No. 2811 (ARA 1930-58) Show good promise
Alister Clark seedling No. 2812 (ARA 1930-57) Salmon pink, large bloom full petalage
Alister Clark seedling No. 2814 (ARA 1931 108-3) (ARA 1930-58) Show good promise
Alister Clark seedling No. 2978 (ARA 1930-57) Flesh pink, semi-double, very pretty
Alister Clark seedling No. 3678 (ARA 1938-72) A nice clean pink rose
Alister Clark seedling No. 4075 (ARA 1938-72) Another good flower from Chatenay
Alister Clark seedling No. 4141 (ARA 1955-92-4) The number of Princeps in his famous black diary was 4141.
Alister Clark seedling No. 4431 (ARA 1938-72) A seedling from Chatenay with a better habit of growth
Alister Clark seedling No. 4533 (ARA 1932-56) A soft, pink seedling of good form from Mrs. Willis
Alister Clark seedling No. 4662 (ARA 1938-72) a nice red seedling from Mrs. Albert Nash.
(ARA 1941-40) Maud Nash 1942 or Mrs. Eric Quirk 1941? (if red).
Alister Clark seedling No. 4716 (ARA 1938-72) a good red, better than Royal Red
Alister Clark seedling No. 5221 (ARA 1938-72) a good seedling, from Souv. de Gustave Prat
Alister Clark seedling No. 5310 (ARA 1932-27): “my latest seedling is No. 5310 in my record book...”
Alister Clark seedling No. 5986 (ARA 1935-36) “as my last budded seedling is numbered 5986...”
Alister Clark seedling No. 5977 (ARA 1938-72) a dark red of very rich colouring that shows no sign of blueing.

1938 The Australian Rose Annual” p72. Article by Mr. H. Alston “A visit to Glenara”
“Of those at present under number or tentatively named just to distinguish them before they are finally named, which were most noticeable on the recent visit (to Glenara by H. Alston) were 3678, 4075, 4431, 4662, 4716. 5221, and 5977.
Roses tentatively named that show great promise are:
Brilliant Boy
Indian - and the
while a red seedling from Crusader should prove a decided acquisition.”
Discussion id : 88-379
most recent 5 OCT 15 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 OCT 15 by Give me caffeine
I have a general question about some of the really large Clark climbers.

The story is that we have a fairly steep north-facing bank that we want to cover. Full sun, all day every day. Obviously well drained, and can get pretty dry at times. The soil is fertile clay, but very much unimproved, and in practical terms there's not much that can be done about that. I can give them mulch and supplementary water while they get established, but they'll need root systems tough enough to dig into what's there.

I understand that Clark's roses are generally good for dealing with hot and dry conditions, so I'm wondering how some of Clark's monsters would do if planted somewhere near the top and just allowed to sprawl/cascade/invade down the bank.

Offhand I'm thinking of maybe mixing Courier, Milkmaid, Mrs Richard Turnbull and Nancy Hayward, since they're all roughly the same size and should have the disease resistance to handle sprawling over the ground.

Is this sort of application something they would be likely to do well?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 2 OCT 15 by Patricia Routley
'Milkmaid' would do that job just fine. Sorry, I have no experience of the other roses.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 3 OCT 15 by Eric Timewell
I don't know about the sprawling—sounds like a very good idea. But you may need to take into account their recurrence. Nancy Hayward flowers nearly all year, Milkmaid much of the year. Milkmaid as a Noisette is perhaps a (relatively) modest grower compared to Golden Vision, also recurrent. Don't forget the climbing version of Lorraine Lee, which is a vast and recurrent plant, though sparse flowering compared to the shrub form.
Seen from another angle, the truly enormous Clark giganteas are once flowering. You could stack them so they flowered at different times. Jessie Clark, Harbinger and Broadway are flowering now. Gwen Nash comes next. Doris Downes is often still in flower at Christmas. Courier is perhaps somewhere in between.
Reply #3 of 11 posted 3 OCT 15 by Give me caffeine
Yep, recurrence had occurred to me. I don't mind if they're not all flowering all the time. A bit of variety there is fine, including some one hit wonders. I wasn't aware that Milkmaid flowers most of the year, or that Golden Vision was recurrent to some extent. HMF says both are spring-only.

Speaking of Noisettes, it had occurred to me that some of the bigger and tougher ones could be thrown into the mix as well. I think the most important thing, apart from being tough enough for the location, is that whatever is chosen they all play well together. I'm open to any suggestions on good combinations.*

The other point that occurred to me is stiffness of the canes. For best sprawling I think it'd be desirable to pick ones with fairly lax canes. Stiff canes would be more lumping than sprawling, which I don't think would work so well. It'd also be handy if they weren't too spikey, just in case it's ever necessary to get in there and do some work.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm looking at, the slope in question is about 30 degrees, and the area about 30 metres (horizontally) by 10 metres (down the slope).

*(Excuse the heresy on a rose site, but I had even thought of throwing a Hardenbergia into the mix. The sprays of purple pea flowers could look quite smashing with the roses)
Reply #4 of 11 posted 3 OCT 15 by Eric Timewell
Maybe my recollection of Milkmaid in autumn is wrong.
I get the impression that Noisettes are floppier than most of the Clark HGs. Nancy Hayward has stiff arching canes that, as you say, would probably arch up before they flopped, if ever. Climbing Lorraine Lee and Mrs Richard Turnbull are perhaps semi-floppy. All the others I have only seen on pergolas and obelisks.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 4 OCT 15 by Give me caffeine
How about Countess of Stradbroke? Supposedly a healthy and generally desirable Clark. Would that be floppy enough and tough enough for this job?

I realise it's not truly monstrous, but I'm now thinking a narrow path halfway up the slope might be a good idea. That'd cut the required coverage in half, as well as providing a bit of a water trap if done right.
Reply #8 of 11 posted 4 OCT 15 by Eric Timewell
Countess of Stradbroke's a lovely rose but it isn't big enough for your purposes and certainly not floppy enough.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 3 OCT 15 by Patricia Routley
Milkmaid is spring only and far more than a "modest grower" for me. You would need to lay, perhaps some of that under house-pad thick plastic sheeting with a slope directed to the planting hole so the rose would be watered, and no weeds would grow. Weeding under 'Milkmaid' would be impossible. In time it would make a 5'+ high even cover.
Reply #6 of 11 posted 3 OCT 15 by Give me caffeine
I don't like the idea of plastic sheeting at all. Mulch I can do. I can just mulch thickly as the plant expands, to keep weeds down until it gets big and boofy. I could also cut a shallow terrace (say about 2 feet) across the slope to catch water, and plant on that, which is probably not a bad idea.

I was just looking at the references and comments for some of these. They all seem to agree that Milkmaid is a spring-only bloomer. Some say it's nearly free of thorns, others that it's rather thorny.

I suppose maybe one or two arching ones in the middle might work.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 4 OCT 15 by Margaret Furness
Golden Vision was a good suggestion, because although it wasn't really recurrent for me, it has very nice foliage. Mine did well in clay with a bit of added gypsum.
Nothing wrong with Hardenbergia. Just remember, if you think of adding fertiliser, that many natives evolved in phosphate-poor soils.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 4 OCT 15 by Give me caffeine
Good point. H. violacea (the one we get over here) is quite sensitive to phosphate. Apparently H. comptoniana isn't sensitive, but the sub-tropics on clay is not its natural habitat.

Anyway, so of floppy-ish Clark monsters it looks like Golden Vision, Milkmaid and Mrs. Richard Turnbull are the most likely candidates.

I would like to try Courier, just because it looks so good in the photos, but don't know if it would be floppy enough for this job. If it's no good for this job I can always try it somewhere else later.

I'm a bit wary of Lorraine Lee Cl since I've heard it can get mildew badly at times, and isn't exactly immune to black spot either. A monster in ill health, even if only temporarily, isn't going to be a thing of great beauty. I understand it's also more spikey than the others.

If I want to add some recurrence a monster Noisette or two may make more sense than a non-floppy Clark. Claire Jacquier and Madame Alfred Carrière are apparently huge, floppy, non-spikey, and recurrent. Come to think of it, half a dozen of Aimée Vibert would also cover a fair size patch.

Perhaps even Mrs Herbert Stevens Cl would work. It's apparently big enough, and seems to tick all the other boxes.
Reply #11 of 11 posted 5 OCT 15 by Margaret Furness
Mrs Richard Turnbull at Renmark goes up.
Because I grow natives among my roses (not good in frosty spots if mulched heavily), I use Seamungous rather than Sudden Impact for Roses as fertiliser.
Auguste Gervais (rambler) went downhill very happily for me, but not at all nice to weed among.
Discussion id : 86-378
most recent 5 JUL 15 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 5 JUL 15 by Eric Timewell
More Clark hips.
'Amy Johnson' at Bulla today, no flowers and few leaves;
'Gwen Nash', plenty of small, ovoid, orange hips but too hard to photograph;
'Lorraine Lee' in St Kilda among plenty of leaves, new growth and buds;
'Zara Hore-Ruthven' at St Kilda Botanic Gardens.
Photos from left, 'Amy Johnson', 'Lorraine Lee', 'Zara Hore-Ruthven'.
Discussion id : 86-262
most recent 28 JUN 15 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 28 JUN 15 by Eric Timewell
Another Clark rose with good hips: 'Mrs Norman Watson' at Bulla in March.
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