HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 16 JUL 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 15 JUL 18 by Cavallo
Does this actually exist? This is the only place I can find any reference to it. It would be marvellous, but I have never seen anything like it in commerce.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 16 JUL 18 by Nastarana
'Mary Rose' has been rumored to have produced red and striped sports. There was some online chatter a while back about DA buying a striped sport from an American gardener. I think neither have ever been seen in commerce, alas.
Reply #2 of 2 posted 16 JUL 18 by Cavallo
What a shame. I expect they'd be very popular.

In my opinion, Mary Rose is his best work when you consider all aspects of a garden plant. It would be amazing to be able to intersperse red/pinks/white and even stripes for a continuously flowering "York and Lancaster" display. How much more English can you get?
most recent 20 JUN 18 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 20 JUN 18 by Cavallo
From their website;

"To Our Rose Customers & Friends: After 30+ years of growing container grown roses & shipping bare root roses across the country, We have decided to slow it down a bit and enjoy more of what life has to offer. 2015 will mark the end of an era for us as we discontinue growing and shipping roses.", they're no longer a rose nursery.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 20 JUN 18 by HMF Admin
Noted, thank you.
most recent 16 DEC 14 SHOW ALL
Initial post 28 APR 08 by Cass
Looking at this rose after nine years in my garden, I have to wonder about the species components in its parentage. Thor has nothing of the species about it and resembles other modern hybrids. The foliage does not resemble Rosa setigera, and nothing about the plant resembles Rosa xanthina. As a complex hybrid, it's a shame to see it lumped with the Large-Flowered Climbers. It's a unique rose, more like a climbing Hybrid Tea than anything else.
Reply #1 of 8 posted 20 JUN 08 by Cavallo
Well, Cass - perhaps someone else has noticed this before, but if you check this (somewhat ridiculous) link;,M1'll see a patent for what really seems like Thor, although no mention is made of any name for the new variety. The patent states a lineage that involves only Alpha (setigera x sempervirens) and Chateau de Clos Vougeot. No mention is made of R. xanthina. If this is the patent for Thor, maybe that explains things a little bit, since having seen Thor up close (and hopefully I'll have one next year!) I have to agree - it's hard to see any xanthina in there, at least, let alone the others.
Reply #2 of 8 posted 20 JUN 08 by jedmar
The patent seems quite clear that the parentage does not include R. xanthina. We added the reference and made appropriate modifications.
Reply #3 of 8 posted 21 JUN 08 by Cass
Nice find! Modern Roses 12 confirms that Plant Patent No. 387 is the patent for 'Thor.' I haven't yet researched my older American Rose Annuals for the source of the parentage included in Modern Roses, but I'm much more satisfied with the parentage reported in the patent abstract.
Reply #9 of 8 posted 16 DEC 14 by Michael Garhart
I have to wonder why Sempervirens was used over Wichurana.
Reply #5 of 8 posted 20 OCT 10 by Cass's Garden With Roses
I'm back reviewing the oddities of the rose in commerce in the USA as 'Thor'. It's provenance isn't solid. The source plant was an unlabeled rose in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. That garden was planted within a relatively short period of time in the mid-1990's, with roses sent from all over the USA and Europe. Labels, being labels, disappeared on occasion, and this was one. The blooms attracted attention, and in the early 2000's, someone came up with the attribution 'Thor', and it has stuck for this long. But there are problems. First, there is nothing of <i>Rosa setigera</i> in the plant. Second, it doesn't really climb. It leans with an awkward, gawky habit. Third, it reblooms. The color and form of the blooms is completely unique, and that color is what led me to a rose with identical blooms: Louis Lens' 'Epoca.' At this point, we do not know whether Thor is Epoca or Epoca is Thor or if both are wrong, but we are trying to trace the provenance of Epoca that is now being sold. Take a look of 'Epoca' on HMF:

Then take a look at 'Epoca' at the Louis Lens Roses:

I believe that Thor in commerce in the USA is 'Epoca'.
Reply #6 of 8 posted 26 MAY 11 by ninadambra
the Thor i bought from antique rose emporium of texas is most certainly not epoca.
it fits stephen scanniello's description in climbing roses exactly: a massive, once blooming climber with medium fragrance and large, full petalled dark red flowers.
Reply #7 of 8 posted 26 MAY 11 by Cass
What is the source of ARE's Thor?
Reply #8 of 8 posted 15 OCT 12 by mtspace
I have purchased Thor from ARE and planted it in two gardens. In the first it had not grown to climber proportions by the time I moved, but the rose certainly had a kind of vigor and disease resistance absent all my hybrid tea roses. The flowers were quite large, but there was a certain shapeliness to them as they opened that seemed qualitatively different from that of all hybrid tea roses I can think of. The color was definitely purplish crimson, nothing like the maroon color of Epoca depicted at Lens. And it was not at all variable. The canes were somewhat lax in a significant departure from a hybrid tea rose habit. When it bloomed, I was frequently prepared to pronounce it my favorite rose in the garden. In zone 6b, it definitely was not remontant.

I have planted it here in Arizona zone 7b, too. It grows just north of a dense cedar where it gets zero hours of direct sunlight per day; but if it were to grow maybe three feet taller it will have eight or ten hours of light. It has not, therefore bloomed. It has made a few ten or twelve ft long canes well provisioned with large, dark green foliage. This is its third location here in two years. So it is a rose that has endured a great deal of adversity, growing better than most roses with full sunlight and a fixed location. It takes a rose with a peculiar kind of vigor of root and branch - a vigor rarely found in modern roses - to tolerate the rather extreme insults I have piled on this rose. I have heard mixed accounts of the effects of R. setigera on the metabolism of a rose bred from it. The one that I have been acting on- heavily influenced by the heritage of Baltimore Belle I believe - is that R. setigera imparts vigor, cold hardiness, shade tolerance, good branching, and large flowers. And so far I'd have to say that guidance seems consistent with my own experience with Thor.

Of course I cannot be certain this is the rose bred by Horvath. Should some kind of genetic testing rule out the possibility that this is the real Thor, my experience suggests that those who grow the rose named Thor from ARE would be likely to continue thinking of it in greater-than-life terms, imbuing it with god-like qualities, planting more where there is room in their gardens, and calling it Thor.

BTW: Cass I think you did a great job of capturing some of those god-like qualities in your photo of Thor. .
most recent 5 APR 12 SHOW ALL
Initial post 17 JUN 07 by Niels Plougmann
In the notes it says:the rose sold today as 'Souvenir d'Alphonse Lavallée' may, in fact, be 'Souvenir du Docteur Jamain. Well much more often you will get Erinerung an Brod! most of the picture here On HMF shows Erinerung an Brod ...Not SDAL.
Reply #1 of 5 posted 1 JUL 09 by Cavallo
Hi, Neils. I know there was a plan to get the REAL Alphonse imported to the US via Ashdown. Has there been any progress on this? Just wondering.
Reply #2 of 5 posted 1 JUL 09 by Niels Plougmann
I am not sure if the Dutch nursery have yet sent any plants to Ashdown Roses? I think when they are harvesting plants this fall they will probably send this rose too - these 2 nurseries exchange roses all the time. Last years harvest from the Dutch nursery sold out very quickly - also the 34 plants of the dwarf/miniature bourbon Reverend H. D'Ombrain sold out immediately. Both roses are blooming right now in my garden and I so enjoy both roses. I hope you are able to get a plant from Ashdown when they have it - we sure have to be patient when there is something we want huh! Sigh!
Reply #3 of 5 posted 31 MAR 12 by Alex Stepanov
Hello, Niels! May I ask you what Dutch nursery do you mean? Are you sure they have the real SDAL there? Or maybe you know who has surely the real SDAL in EU?
Thank you
Reply #4 of 5 posted 4 APR 12 by Niels Plougmann
Hello Alex: - The Dutch Nursery Rozenkwekerij de Bierkreek have gotten budwood from the plant I have pictures of here on HMF and on my gardenblog and should have plants availble for sale this spring or in the fall. I hope you will enjoy it as much as I do.
Reply #5 of 5 posted 5 APR 12 by Alex Stepanov
Thank you very much! They have already contacted me.
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