HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
most recent 1 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 7 OCT 19 by odinthor
Perhaps I have overlooked something and this is a silly question; but if this rose was introduced as 'Spirit of Ocean City', why is it called 'Canadian Sunset'?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 8 OCT 19 by jedmar
Most breeders nowadays introduce a rose under different trade names in different countries. Apparently, 'Spirit of Ocean City' would not have sold as well in Canada as 'Canadian Sunset'.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor
But surely the original introduction name has priority; and I note in these HMF comments that the breeder himself continues calling it 'Spirit of Ocean City'. Just within the last week I was reading comments in the American Rose Annual--J. Horace McFarland was writing, I believe--lamenting the re-naming of already-introduced roses (thus, 'Joseph Guy', not 'Lafayette'). And here we are, so many years later . . .
Reply #3 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by jedmar
I am not sure I understand the point. The synonyms are not prioritised. If you search for 'Spirit of Ocean City' that name will be shown at the top and in your comments.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor
Primarily, I'm just expressing general dismay that roses which already have one name are given another (not lodging a complaint about HMF). Not everyone understands that the concept of "synonyms" is a bit different in biological nomenclature (in which names have, or don't have, priority) than it is in general word usage and lexicography (in which all true synonyms are more or less of equal merit), and consequently some will think that it's as proper to use a name with less priority as it is to use one with greater priority, or don't concern themselves with making a distinction.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by Marlorena
...this has been going on forever hasn't it? I don't like it either, I wish they would keep their original names, but lots of roses introduced here in England have gone through an unfortunate name change... e.g. Julia Child = Absolutely Fabulous... and your 'Fourth of July' is 'Crazy For You' over here.... which I think is rather funny considering the history...
Reply #8 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Nastarana
I don't like it either but it is not illegal. The late John Clements was notorious for the practice. And, there are gardeners who simply will not buy any plant which has what they consider a stuck up fancy pants name. And then the adorable chipmunks and rainbows crowd wants sentimental names, the stickier and ickier the better, it seems to me. I gather that breeders working for companies like pre-bankruptcy J&P had no control over which rose would be introduced nor over names.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 11 OCT 19 by jedmar
...chipmunks and rainbows crowd?
Reply #11 of 11 posted 1 APR by Michael Garhart
its slang for idealistic hippy folk lol
Reply #6 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by jedmar
I personally don't like it either, however it seems now standard marketing practice to have different names for the same rose in different markets. Another unfortunate practice from the point of view of the gardener is the recycling of names. The known "brand" is thus passed on to a new rose which has another 20 years of patent protection. There is a lot of effort on our side to try to bring some light into this jungle. Some nursery companies have now stopped publishing the unique breeder codes of their novelties, probably to make it more difficult to assign the synonyms. This is short-sighted.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Margaret Furness
Alister Clark complained about it in 1930. See the reference recently added to William R. Smith by Billy Teabag.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Marlorena
Some German names are problematic for us in it isn't surprising they get changed really... I mean I can't imagine anyone here picking up a rose named 'Herz Ass' [Tantau rose]….unless as some kind of a joke... I might though, as I would 'Mainzer Fastnacht'...but most would be put off by that I think, but change it to 'Blue Moon' and it's been a winner for decades...
most recent 9 JAN 20 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 9 JAN 20 by odinthor
Did the very influential (in their time) American firms Dreer's and Bobbink & Atkins simply decide to wind up business and shut down, or were they absorbed by other firms?

It seems strange to me that such companies which were so well known for decades finally seemed to disappear without remark in the rose world (of course, the same thing happened with Moreau-Robert: I've never found any contemporary remark on it shutting down).
most recent 26 DEC 19 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 26 DEC 19 by odinthor
'Feuersturm' was "neuheit" in 1975, according to Deutsche Gärtnerbörse: Ausg. A., Volume 75, p. 804, (assuming it's the same 'Feuersturm').
Reply #1 of 1 posted 26 DEC 19 by Patricia Routley
Thank you Brent. Date altered from 1976 to 1975
most recent 21 NOV 19 SHOW ALL
Initial post 24 AUG 07 by DonaldQuRoses
I finally called someone to ask about a rose that is blooming non-stop that I pass on my way to work everyday. I also stopped to sniff it and it had a pretty strong scent.

I was told it was a Valentine. Can that be right? I didn't think Valentine had a scent.
Reply #1 of 1 posted 21 NOV 19 by odinthor
Here we are, a couple of decades after your question: I have a 'Valentine', and you are right: It is devoid of scent.
© 2021