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How do the flowers of Papa Meilland compare to Oklahoma? Color, size, texture, form/shape, fragrance, repeat, rain resistance, strong/weak necks, etc. Do the petals fall off clean or remain on the bush? Does it set hips? Many thanks for your help.
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Papa Meilland is a very good strong, deep red colour often with with a velvety lustre.
Oklahoma is a blacker red, darker and duller than Papa Meilland.
In my garden, Papa Meilland makes a taller, more robust plant than Oklahoma.
Both produce blooms that are exquisitely fragrant, though not particular long lasting either on the plant or in the vase.
Neither are particularly attractive, garden-worthy plants but Papa Meilland in particular is an indispensable bloom factory, producing its beautiful blooms on long, strong stems continuously throughout the year here in Perth, Western Australia. I have three plants and would hate to be without them because they are my first choice for a bunch of classic, fragrant, long-stemmed red Hybrid Tea roses. The plants are tall, angular, prickly and not particularly well clothed with leaves.
Oklahoma is, in my garden, less robust and the colour, while darker, is duller. The flower stalk is a little weaker so the bloom may nod slightly at times.
Papa Meilland produces classic HT blooms - high-centred with outer petals opening in a spiral. Medium to large with a good firm petal texture. It is at its most perfect as a partly open bloom. Oklahoma can be a little less formal in form, slightly globular and the petal texture is a little less firm than Papa M..
Both plants rarely set hips. If spent blooms are not removed, they eventually dry and drop but removing spent blooms encourages rebloom.
Papa Meilland is fine for the back row of the garden where other, leafier roses will screen its bare legs but it is probably best thought of as a rose grown for cut flowers rather than as a decorative garden specimen.
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i couldn´t add anything else to billy teabags comparison, exept, that in my climate papa meilland regularly freezes back to the ground and oklahoma doesn´t.
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i startet cultivating tea-roses three years ago and i´ve just begun this year to find out, what the so-called tea-rose-scent is about, because, after all i do not seem to respond to it very well. strange as it seems, it has been named rosa x odorata, despite the fact that most varieties do not bare any fragrance after my definition - i would rather call it a smell. most of them remind me of greens, like freshly sliced aubergines, peas or green beans, which is not really unpleasant, but makes it understandable, why the rose in general has never been that great success in china.
after all, what i wanted to say is that i still cannot understand why varieties like mme jules graveraux, niphetos, mme bérard etc. are so often discribed as "highly fragrant", when they can never be so compared to some albas or damascaenas because of their complete lack of geraniol.
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Just because you can't smell these roses doesn't mean that others don't find them highly fragrant. I can't smell the tea roses very well either, but I can smell many other roses such as the Damask family and the Rugosa family. My wife and I have very different senses of smell. She can smell the ones I can't and I can smell the ones she can't.
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#2 of 2 posted
20 APR 11 by
Kacie
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I have Zepherine Drouhin which is supposed to be very fragrant but only smell a little scent. Several of my friends however say that it is the most fragrant rose I have and I have a number.
Kacie
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i have been wondering why this rose has become so very popular. i think, it is, because it is susceptible to every parasite and desease in the world and still stands tall - most of the individuals i see are crippled. the flowers are a bit less than ok for half a day and the scent is - well, i think it´s a kind of placebo effect you get while exploring the flowers. there are so many really great wichuraiana-hybrids and i don´t know why they picked the poorest one to spread it all over the world.
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I can't share your opinion. My ND is totally disease free and I often admired it in other gardens. From afar it looks particulary lovely. Which wichuraiana-hybrids do you mean?
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#2 of 5 posted
7 JUL 08 by
Unregistered Guest
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especially the ones bred by barbier, like "francois juranville"; "paul transon"; "alberic barbier"; rené andré"; "albertine" , but also "paul noel" is fantastic. but i´m glad to hear that it grows satisfying in your corner of the world. where is that, by the way?
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Yes, they all are wonderful, but unlike "New Dawn" they are once-flowering. "Albéric Barbier" and "Léontine Gervais" are growing in my garden; both have a pronounced susceptibility to diseases (mildew).
I'm living near Hanover in Germany (take a look at my HMF page). Like you I like old garden roses.
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i can understand this argument, despite my personel opinion which is that once-flowering plants are often the more worshipped ones. anyway, réné andre, paul noel and paul transon produce second (smaller) flushes in autumn.
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i concur in the reservations you mention--flowers don't last long, bush is sprawling, and if you blink you will miss the repeat bloom later. I often wonder whether this climber does better in coastal climates and the northeast. Guess I am just not a devotee.
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Is this rose lax enough to be trained along a cast iron fence only 3 feet high, or is it too upright to be grown that way?
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i don´t think bantry bay would be the best choice for that purpose
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Thank you. I'm not surprised to learn that, but even so I wanted to read what others had to say about this. I've read before that many of the progeny of New Dawn have much stiffer canes than it does and so they are much more upright climbers (& this does not surprise me because New Dawn is often crossed with hybrid teas and floribundas), but I wasn't familiar with Bantry Bay.
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