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Alf E. Andresen 
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Initial post
21 NOV 07 by
Cass
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Hi, Margaret. What can you tell us about English Wedding Day? It's clearly different from something else called 'Wedding Day.' The only information I have is that Wedding Day is a cross of Rosa longicuspis and moyesii, 1950, Sir Frederich Stern.
Something else called Wedding Day in New Zealand?
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I know nothing about the rose; I don't think it's available in Australia. The photo was taken in Sally Allison's garden. It is not the one photographed in her book on climbers and ramblers, which doesn't mention English WD. Jocelen might be able to provide more info.
Margaret
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According to Charles Quest-Ritson, "Climbing Roses of the World" (2003) the rose sold as 'Wedding Day' in Australia is actually 'Polyantha Grandiflora'.
The 'Wedding Day' sold in Europe is the Stern (1950) rose.
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#3 of 13 posted
21 NOV 07 by
Cass
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If that is right, then the Wedding Day sold in the Pacific should have fringed stipules.
So 'English Wedding Day' is meant to be the Stern rose.
Alf, can you confirm that Stern's Wedding Day does not have fringed stipules? It's a bit late in the year....
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Very late in the season here, too, but I think I can. I have examined my pictures of the rose, and can see no fringed stipules.
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The nurseryman who sold me a rose labelled 'Kiftsgate' many years ago told me recently that this is now thought to be incorrectly identified. It's a very large and vigorous climber that makes a spectacular display in the late spring /early summer every year.
- If not Kiftsgate, then what is it?
'Gentiliana' and "One of the Wedding Days" have both been suggested.
Looking at the photo selections under each of these names, it looks like the muddles might be quite widespread.
Is there any firm ground here?
Billy
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#6 of 13 posted
22 NOV 07 by
Cass
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Hi, Billy.
The enormous white climbers are lots of fun, aren't they. It will turn us into amateur botanists in spite of ourselves. I'd start with the stipules. That would be the first clue. Multiflora and kin or no. If no, then I'd swap into looking at section Synstylae species.
When in bloom, I'd take really good shots of the form of the inflorescence. That can be quite challenging. Use your telephoto lens, Billy. Try to capture any bracts, any smooth or bristly calyx, you know the details, buds showing color, their habit and carriage.
And capture a picture of how the rose carries itself, its essential habit and "look." After the bloom, note the hips, color and size. Capture cane color and texture.
The problem with these once bloomers is that they are rare enough and bloom so infrequently that they are hard to compare. We have to grab your opportunities to view them, which are few and far between.
I like to look at the Section Synstylae on Roger's Roses. The fact that all these huge white climbers are all in the same section is not a coincidence. Unfortunately, you will find few images there.
Also, Billy, load up a shot or two of some blooms and buds here. Maybe we can get some opinions. It is a bit helpful to have growers from several continents.
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Thanks Cass.
Here are some photos of Rose bought as 'Kiftsgate', Perth, Western Australia, late spring 2007.
I'd be most interested in any opinions about the identity of this rose.
Billy
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#8 of 13 posted
23 NOV 07 by
Cass
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Nice, Billy. So we're clearly seeing something multiflora. The only thing we're missing is a sense of scale on the bloom size and the leaf size.
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I've also been told that Seagull is sold as Wedding Day in Australia, to add to the muddle. I haven't got any of them, and the one in my mother's old garden, that I used for breeding, has been removed. (I crossed it with an Oz-bred flori, Eric the Red, and got a vigorous spring-flowering red climber that doesn't set hips. And gets black spot.)
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#10 of 13 posted
24 NOV 07 by
Cass
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Vintage Gardens describes Seagull as single with occasional petaloids near the stamens. From what I can see, Billy's multiflora looks classically single with 5 petals. Seagull has very small blooms.
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With this rose, everything is big.
The rose itself is very large - strong and vigorous.
It throws out very long canes - they are capable of spanning remarkably large distances - the prickles and bristles on these canes are very effective for grabbing and anchoring. Lateral canes grow strongly upward from these long horizontal canes, so that from a distance, there is a crowd of these upright canes waving above the main mound.
The individual blooms are a little larger than many of these white rambly climbers - approx 4cm - (1&1/2 inches) is the average size.
The bloom is profuse.
A lovely fragrance - quite sweet, strong and nectar-like to my nose.
Our plant looks like the photos of Kiftsgate in Phillips & Rix 'Roses' and other books - thus my confusion at why some say this rose is not correctly identified.
I'll attach a few more shots with a scale attached (in centimetres - 2&1/2 cm = 1 inch)- apologies for the quality of photos.
The flush is coming to an end - hastened by some fiercely hot weather.
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#12 of 13 posted
29 NOV 07 by
Cass
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Billy, from my reading, the distinguishing feature of <i>Rosa filipes</i> and therefore 'Kiftsgate', apart from enormous size, should be the thread-like stalks within the corymbs. My shot of <i>Rosa filipes</i> at de l'Häy shows the corymbs.
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pics.php?l=2.5312.1&qs=-76483
The original botanical description by E. H. Wilson states that the lower leaf surface should be dotted with glands. You'll find that, too, with <i>Rosa filipes.</i> There is a strange thing in the description, "its small globose fruit covered with bloom." <i>Plantae Wilsonianae</i> has the description in botanical Latin, grrrr, but it is possible to translate with my small understanding of Romance languages and a book: "Frucus globosus, 8-12 mm. diam., intense scarlantinus, sepalis deciduis, stylis saepe partim persistentibus." Globose fruit 8-12 mm. diameter, intense scarlet, deciduous sepals, styles often partly persistent.
I'll dig through my files and try to put up more botanical detail from the plant at de l'Häy.
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Digging up the past a bit here... but I believe that on the east coast of Australia 'Wedding Day' is often sold interchangeably with the original species, Rosa longicuspis var sinowilsonii. Photos posted on Rose Talk recently, of a rose bought as 'Wedding Day', has the same plum hues of the huge new foliage as does sinowilsonii whilst a WA form of 'Wedding Day' was also posted that shows none of these plum tendencies, smaller foliage and different stigma structures with flowers that are very similar to sinowilsonii without the pointed tips to the petals. The petals on my sinowilsonii are quite wide, entire and rounded. Alf's version of sinowilsonii has heart shaped petals whilst Jedmar's photos of 'Wedding Day' here clearly show a pointed tip to the petals. Mine sometimes forms these same heart shaped petals. Given how easily the seeds germinate (I have found seedlings coming up under mine) I would not be surprised if there were many types that started out as seedlings all going by the same name. I'm still not entirely convinced mine is sinowilsonii either. Billy, if you have room for another house-eater I have a spave own-root version of mine I can send over for comparison.
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I'm confused; the description on this site for Boerner's Aloha rose says it's disease resistant, but then it also says it's susceptible to mildew and rust. It looks like everyone who has made a comment relating to its disease resistance says that it is disease resistant for them. A couple of people who commented on Everyrose.com also said it's disease resistant. Unless I missed it, I didn't see any comment saying otherwise.
I realize that the disease resistance of a given rose can vary with climate and other factors -- but is this rose generally disease resistant, or is it prone to mildew and rust? If climate makes a big difference for this rose, please answer with regard to zone 9, if possible.
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I have not planted Aloha because I was told by rose growers at the San Francisco Rose Society Aloha is susceptible to rust in a damp, foggy summer. I suspect mildew would be a problem only if you over-fertilized. I suspect that where you live rust would not be a problem (unless you find it a problem with other roses you have) and neither would mildew. There's only one way to find out -- plant one. In any case, Aloha really has gorgeous flowers and a wonderful fragrance. You can see where Abraham Darby gets its best qualities!
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#2 of 6 posted
22 JUN 09 by
CarolynB
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Thanks for your reply, Jeff.
Any other comments from people in other climates?
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Aloha (Boerner 1949) is healthy i Western Norway (cool, wet climate).
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#4 of 6 posted
27 JUL 10 by
Gagnon98
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I have one Aloha growing. It is very healthy and very disease resistant here in Southern CT. The leaves are spotless and have been for three years. I received it from a friend who has had probably 10 huge bushes for 30yrs, which are absolutely magnificent!! Re: the shade, this rose will tolerate shade. Mine is is nearly all day full sun and it could probably use a little more shade, as the flower petals seem to burn a little. But this year has been exceedingly hot. My friends are in probably 1/2 day shade and they probably have 200 flowers on each bush.
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I live about 10 miles north of Boston. If your friend grows Aloha as a shrub, how tall are those "huge" Alohas?
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#6 of 6 posted
8 JUN 11 by
Gagnon98
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Sorry, just getting to this post. My apologies. Her Aloha's, which she grows as shrubs were at least 7-8' tall, very well branched, exceedingly bushy with innumerable roses on each. But she's been growing them for some 30yrs in their present location, all fertilized organically with compost. Rarely has a spot on the leaves. I took a cutting three years ago. Mine is now 5' high, well branched and currently has many dozens of buds on it as of June 7, 2011. Mine is in truly full sun and it's too sunny for this rose. It benefits from afternoon shade. I might try to take a cutting and grow it in 1/2 day sun.
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This rose has the following label at Arboretet på Milde, Bergen:
'Chloris', 'Rosée du Matin', 'Belle Elise'.
Funnet i gammel hage i Hakadal, kalt "Balldronningen".
(Translation: Found in old garden in Hakadal, called "Balldronningen".)
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Possibly not Stern's 'Wedding Day' Alf. Your petals are heart-shaped and Stern's 'Wedding Day' petals have a small mucronate tip to them. See the two photos from Jedmar and from Margaret Furness which clearly show the mucronate tip.
You have two good clues. Your petals are heart-shaped, and your hips are oval.
Although Polyantha grandiflora petals are heart-shaped, I don't think your rose is this one, as your hips are too long.
I would suggest you have a look at the R. gentiliana file. Those petals are heart-shaped and I think the hips are oval, although I have no photos.
These white ramblers are most difficult but your very clear photos certainly help.
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I have noticed this, Patricia, but all 'Wedding Day' specimens I have seen in Norway have petals like this. I have guessed the variation is because of the cold climate, but I do not know. It may be R. gentiliana, but no rose is available under that label in Norway.
My 'Wedding Day' is probably bred in Denmark, and is hardy. Survived -20 degrees Celsius this winter all the way to it´s top (5 meters).
Thank you. I will investigate further.
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Alf
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