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most recent 18 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 11 APR 10 by Laurie Newman
I am a proud Australian. My profile illustrates that I am also a keen rosarian. Since visiting Mornington Botanical Rose Garden yesterday, it came again to me the sad conclusion that our "Cultural Cringe" is alive and well. I spotted two beds of Rosa 'Dame Elisabeth Murdoch', enclosed in two bays dedicated to and sponsored by that illustrious Australian lady. In view of her reputation and the great esteem with which she is held in Australia, I wondered just who chose this particular rose that was given the honour of her name. Be that as it may, it is an unremarkable rose bred in Germany, Rosa 'Speelwark', and to it second hand is given the name of a great Australian lady. The question needs to be asked as to why not an Australian bred rose? It is my opinion that that would be a much more appropriate option.

But then, "they" have been recklessly indifferent to recognising Australian bred roses since Alister Clark's roses were exported to America 80 years ago, resulting in the creation there of the "mystery virus" from Australia because of which we are still prohibited from exporting roses to USA. Recently the wheel has turned full circle, and we now don't accept roses directly from America. How in the past we have escaped "Witches Broom" and other "nasties" they have over there I don't know, and I expect that we can be very thankful for the protection of quarantine protocols.

During that period of time, it has been the practice of several Australian rose distributors from time to time, to bypass Australian roses and give a new name to an introduced rose, no doubt for commercial advantage. I will not name names. It is a historical fact, and it has happened with Rosa 'Speelwark'. Why is not an Australian bred rose chosen? Australian bred roses have been named for early explorers, and various religious centres of learning, but very few living Australians or significant national occasions. The centenary of Australian Federation was such an occasion, and rather than adopt an Australian rose for that celebration, "they" chose a rose with the name of a crazy cartoon-strip character, "Betty Boop"!!! In its gaudiness it may be attractive to many, but where is the innate Australian character befitting such an occasion? Australian roses were suggested, a very appropriate rose amongst them, but they were overlooked. Why? I am completely unaware how this rose was marketed with the new name Rosa 'Centenary of Federation'.

And now I see Rosa 'Rebell' has been renamed Rosa 'Australian Centenary of Federation'. Bred by Kordes of Germany in 2006, the connection with our federation, and how we got and why we need a second token of recognition of that occasion escapes me.

Australian bred roses are very good indeed, and compare favourably with those selected from overseas stock. In competition with roses submitted from overseas, Australian bred roses have performed very well at the Australian Rose Trial Garden in Adelaide for many years. A problem exists whereby growers and distributers in Australia dedicate their annual production to roses from their overseas principals in order to maintain the agency, to the almost total denial that Australian bred roses exist.

One brave Australian distributor is the exception, but it requires that the large rose interests and the general public seriously look at the quality roses available at home, and that are not generally made available to the general public.
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Reply #1 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #2 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Laurie Newman
George. Yes it may be unsettling, but we have to live with it, and I think the tide is turning towards Australian Bred roses. South Australian George Thompson and Victorian Bruce Chapman are doing great work, as is a new boy Warren Millington from Deniliquin. Check these pages for examples of their work. If only rests on the shoulders of Australian rose breeders to register their roses through the Australian Registrar for the free publicity available through free publication in Modern Roses 13.

Good Luck with your breeding. Consider contacting Australian Rose Breeders Association and Australian or New South Wales Rose Society for connections and information. We're all in it together.
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Reply #3 of 40 posted 15 APR 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #4 of 40 posted 17 APR 10 by Patricia Routley
Hmmm. Laurie, I can't help but note that your contributions to HelpMeFind do not carry that red star which indicate your help and support to this site!
Patricia.
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Reply #5 of 40 posted 2 MAY 10 by anonymous-377685
What does Austrailia have to do with Betty Boop?
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Reply #6 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
Rosa 'Betty Boop', an American bred rose, was chosen to recognise the Centenary of Federation for Australia. as if to say there is not an Australian bred rose adequate for this honour. Who made this decision?
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Reply #7 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Gotcha. How often is this award given?
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Reply #8 of 40 posted 4 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
Not an award, just a re-naming for commercial gain. There will no doubt be a rose named for the bicentenary in 2101 (of federation of the separate colonies in Australia, to become one nation).
I object to any rose being given multiple names for marketing purposes; and especially when a rose that already has a frivolous name is used to commemorate a special event or person.
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Reply #9 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
Australia (you included) should be honored and thrilled that Tom Carruth allowed such a marvelous rose to be co-named Australian Centenary of Freedom. Betty Boop is one of the finest to come out in past 30 years and it's obvious why the powers that be in your homeland were drueling over it. If Tom were from Tunisia or Antartica he would still be the King Breeder of the day.
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Reply #10 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
Welcome to an American friend to this discussion about why Australian bred roses are not chosen to commemorate a uniquely Australian event. We have any number of locally bred roses that may be used for such purposes, especially for this auspicious occasion.

To my limited knowledge, Rosa 'Betty Boop' is as I described it, a gaudy rose named after a similarly gaudy American cartoon strip character, completely inappropriate to be chosen for the occasion of the Centenary of Federation of THIS country. Perhaps this latest un-named contributor can enlighten us as to its being "one of the finest to come out in past 30 years". Perhaps this contributor can also direct me to some evidence of the superior qualities(?) of this rose, for I can find none.
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Reply #11 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Laurie,
Since you asked for evidence, you need look no further than the hmf roses site:
1. 14 favorite rose ratings- not bad for a relatively new introduction, eh?

2. check out the lovely positive remarks on this very "MEMBERS COMMENTS" site (a site which I must confess is a tad overladen with your Aussie inferiority complex diatribe, rather than RELEVANT comments about the subject: it's Betty Boop, isn't it?)

3. check out the awards tab for the Devine Ms Boop- WARNING: You may not have time to read them all in one sitting.

But then we certainly don't want to negate your obviously very strong feelings of patriotism with EASILY found facts now, or do we? Why not lighten up and deliver Ms Boop the applause she heartily deserves and leave politics out of the rose bed?
Personally, I agree with Empress Josephine who imported roses from the British despite their ongoing war with her Frenchmen and let's not forget Mr. Shakespeare: "A rose from whatever county is still a rose.."
Love from Los Angeles,
Tim
PS My brother Tad, who lives in Canberra, told me that Ms Boop has really painted the town. Enjoy!
PSS Since most of Mr Carruth's roses are so beyond magnifiScent here in LA, I'm sure you can experience the glory in Australia too- since we share your wonderful climate.
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Reply #14 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Laurie Newman
I'm sorry Tim, I've obviously touched a nerve. The name is Laurie by the way. There is no doubt that Tim Carruth has bred and is still breeding good roses, but he is not alone. The measure of a good rose is not necessarily popular opinion. Better qualification for excellence is to be gained from recognition by rose experts, such as is had from Trial Garden exposure and success around the world, All-American Rose Selection awards, James Alexander Gamble Award for fragrance, to name but a few. Politics? I don't see any.
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Reply #15 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Laurie,
Maybe you didn't get chance to read the HMF Roses "AWARDS" tab on Betty, as I requested, but there you would find the AARS Award recognition that you seem to consider important, as well as MANY other awards. Why do you think the officials in Australia awarded it with the prestigious name in the first place? Don't you think they had any critera in choosing a rose for the title other than: it must be an American rose? As you must know, as a breeder, many roses have more than one name.
Personally I think popularity among we lowly rose gardeners is the proof in the pudding that a rose really works and satisfies. I've seen award winners and "rose of the year" selections fall by the wayside while less recognized roses have hung on to become classics because they have delivered to the public.
Anyway since Betty has been highly recognized by BOTH factions it makes your scorn for her all the more puzzling.
Now then, when you give Betty Boop a chance in your garden, and you must if you seriously want to live life to it's fullest (remember you did admit to limited knowledge of Ms Boop), no doubt, you will fall in love with and probably even begin to use her in your breeding program.
Humbly accepting your retraction in advance,
Tim
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Reply #20 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
My name is Tim and the legendary 13 time AARS winner's name is Tom Carruth.
If he were English he'd already have a title.
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Reply #12 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Mr Laurie Newman,
Please don't deprive yourself of the superberific Della Reese, Crystalline, Ebb Tide, Wild Blue Yonder, Memorial Day, Rock & Roll, Legends, Barbra Streisand, Julia Child, Stainless Steel etc etc etc etc etc, just because they weren't bred by a citizen of Oz. Life is to short to live in your puritanical state of patriotic celibacy and restraint. Imagine if Dorothy had stayed in just Kansas!
Barbra Sreisand didn't wait for a New Yorker, Oprah didn't wait for a Tennessean, and Julia Child didn't wait for a Californian... they all called on Texan Tom Carruth because he's the Rose King of the World.
LONG LIVE AND ALL HAIL (and SMELL the roses of) THE KING!!!
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Reply #13 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Cass
I agree with both of you.

In my opinion, while we are expressing opinions, the Australian centenary should be commemorated by a rose bred by an Australian hybridizer. Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown.

I also think Tom Carruth is a prolific, successful and innovative hybridizer, producing terrific roses - a remarkable line of "Carruth blue roses" (Stainless Steel, Blueberry Hill, Barbra Streisand, Outta the Blue, Route 66, Neptune, Midnight Blue, Wild Blue Yonder, Night Owl, Ebb Tide); the russet Hot Cocoa; and many other commercially successful roses like Scentimental, Moonstone, Fourth of July, About Face, and Julia Child. One man's tasteful is another man's boring. Carruth works with a full palette of colors.
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Reply #16 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Dear Cass,
I hate to disagree with someone who bears my favorite name, and someone who gows so damn many roses, but....
Who cares where a breeder was born? It's the rose that counts! Pick the guy or gal who does the best job, or grows the best rose in this case. Who cares what side of a borderline somebody slipped out of a uterus? Since I was enlightened by people like Cass Elliot and her friend and your neighbor, Joan Baez, I don't go for all this flag waving stuff. Sadly, I think Laurie was doggin Betty soley because of her national origin.
PS
Why don't Cass, Joan or Aretha have roses named after them? Maybe Laurie could create them if he isn't focused on one for Olivia or the Bee Gees?
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Reply #17 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #18 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Sorry if I offended anyone with my mistake. I respect all sexes equally, so no harm intended.
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Reply #19 of 40 posted 17 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #25 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Cass
Tim: I have not burdened these comments with what nationalism should NOT include. I am not waving the flag. I said "Nationalism should include honoring the home-grown," and I'll go to my pacifist-Northern California-wingnut-commie-pinko-radical grave saying the same thing.
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Reply #21 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
All-America Rose Selection [ 1999 ]

Floribunda (One Bloom)
Show / Date(s): Albuquerque Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Blytheville Rose Society Fall Rose Show [ 2001, 1999 ]
Central Arkansas Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Glendale Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Green Valley Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Holston Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Lake Superior Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lewis County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Lexington Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Marion County Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Medford Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mid-Hudson Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Mount Diablo Rose Society [ 2000 ]
NEW (Northeast Wisconnsin) Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Ozarks Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Greater St. Louis [ 2001 ]
Rose Society of Tucson [ 2001 ]
San Joaquin Valley Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Schenectady Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Scottsdale Rose Society [ 2001, 2000 ]
Shasta Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Tulsa Rose Society [ 1999 ]
West Valley Rose Society [ 1998 ]

Floribunda Spray
Show / Date(s): Gold Country Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Greater Gwinnett Rose Society [ 2000 ]
Marin Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Millen Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Diego Rose Society [ 2001 ]
San Mateo County Rose Society [ 2001 ]
Seattle Rose Society [ 1999 ]
Twin Cities - North Star Rose Societies [ 2001 ]
Twin Cities Rose Club [ 2000 ]
Tyler Rose Society [ 1999 ]
York Area Rose Society [ 2001 ]
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Reply #22 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #23 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Hey George,
If I had any say in it I would have been happy to choose Laurie Newman's China Sunrise- it looks amazing. Betty Boop has already enjoyed plenty of sucess anyway. I am all for the little guy getting a break, but Betty Boop is a star, and doesn't deserved to get bashed just because big business is unfair, sucks and doesn't always have the best of taste.
I do think nationality should be irrelevant in a selection process though. I also defend non-Americans, when they win commisions here, from Yanks complaining "it shoulda gone to an American"
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Reply #24 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #26 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Actually though ,George, that is not "all" he said. He called Betty Boop "gaudy and completley inappropriate." Since Mr Newman claims "politics" aren't involved, then he is attacking the vivacious star of this page. Let us all remember we are on Betty's page and she does deserve a modicum of respect if not admiration. She is such a hard worker.
Peace and Blessings,
Tim
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Reply #27 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #28 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Thats quite true, George, but I don't think you should feel obligated to assume the position of trying to whitewash the dreadful things Mr Newman said about poor Betty. Do you know her yourself? To grow her is to love her, and I'm sure you will, when you do. I know he's a skilled breeder, but does that justify his harsh remarks about this beloved STAR and AARS Winner? Even if Laurie Newman has denied any "political" considerations, I just can't help but feel he's being so cruel about Ms Boop just because she and her creator are Americans. I would never object and lobby for an American breeder if New Zealander Sam McCredy lV decided to rename Aotearoa something like: American Revolution Celebration Rose. I'd feel that the US celebration would have scored! I certainly wasn't offended that we used French Breeder Meilland for Miss All American Beauty instead of somebody from Jackson & Perkins like Eugene Boerner, although I certainly preferred the name Maria Callas for the sake of beauty.
Meanwhile let us try to be kinder to Betty Boop and Tom for all the joy they have provided the whole world, especially while visiting Betty's own page!!
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Reply #29 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #30 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
I think 30 posts is more than adequate for any one discussion. Would HMF Admin please close it?
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Reply #31 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Margaret,
What are you afraid of? No one is shooting anybody. I admire Mr Newman's skill as a breeder, in fact I would purchase that beautiful apricot/ orange rose of his, CHINA EVENING, if I could, but that does not mean I will desert Poor Betty in the alley whilst she is being unfairly attacked.
I am a very loyal friend. Why do you find it necessary to be babysat by the hmf authorities, when we are merely expressing our opinions. Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?
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Reply #33 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Margaret Furness
Boredom.
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Reply #37 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
now THAT is understandable. But just delete your email without checking hmf comments.
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Reply #35 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Lyn G
timdufelmeier......

"Isn't traffic to the hmf site a good thing?"

Yes, it is .... especially if you are a supporting member.

With Regards,

Lyn
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Reply #38 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
See, Margaret and Lyn, inane hmf arguments can be productive, I just joined. I actually have tried a couple times before but that d*** paypal thing wouldn't work.
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Reply #39 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Lyn G
Welcome to HMF ! and thank you for the support.

Lyn
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Reply #32 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Then George is it safe to assume you are a friend of Betty?
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Reply #34 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Which is your favorite? I am stuck in a 2 way tie between Della Reese and Strainless Steel.
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Reply #36 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by Unregistered Guest
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Reply #40 of 40 posted 18 MAY 10 by timdufelmeier
Stainless Steel is perfection and I gave mine away to a dying friend whose gardener killed it anyway. Now I can't find it and I am going into withdrawls. It has been replaced with Neptune at most nurseries in LA. Once I went to a nursery that said SS was in and it was that damn Neptune with a SS label. I recently saw SWEETNESS, that J&P lavender Rose of the Year, and I was not too impressed. Lots of clusters. Hard to judge in a 5 gallon pot though.
Ebb Tide is too freaky for words. I brought a candelabra of about 6 blooms to my office and my co-workers griped "Why did you bring that artificial flower when you have so many pretty real roses in your garden." I just gave my EBB TIDE to my next door neighbor (who I intentionally got addicted to roses) because she was literally having a fit over it. She feeds and waters her flowers like a fiend (we use NO fungi or insecti cides) and now ET is covered with candelabra clusters like a SEXY REXY. That Wild Blue Yonder is MUCH prettier than I realized too. Is SS popular in Oz, it came an went fast here and nobody I know has or wants it. Roses are "out" right now in the US.
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most recent 3 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 8 OCT 06 by John Moody

I was  very anxious to get this rose as the pictures and descriptions made it sound like a rose I would really like. Boy, was I ever wrong!


I don't think I got more than one or two roses it entire first year starting out as a bareroot. The flowers I did get were very unattractive "crepe-paper" looking, lacked substance, and browned an awful color very quickly. The foliage was always a terrible yellowish color and seemed to be constantly down with some kind of disease that no amount or type of spray I use could control. It never produced a basal break in three years of growing. It did seem to winter okay, but it just never grew very vigorously for me at all, so after three years it got shovel-pruned. I replaced it with Lagerfeld in the exact same spot and it has proven to be a much better rose than Stainless Steel was for me.


John Moody

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Reply #1 of 1 posted 3 MAY 10 by anonymous-377685
Although Lagerfeld is an undeniable Classic, I would choose Stainles Steel in a second over any other lavender. The only possible drawback is it's odd beige grey, which I personally adore.The form is always perfect on EVERY bloom and there is always one or two fresh buds forming just as a flush is finishing up. The bush is so graceful and vigorous and the SCENT is A+++. I find Honey Dijon is the spitting image of this parent except for its color. Maybe SS needs a California climate.
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most recent 2 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 13 MAR 05 by Unregistered Guest
I have had this rose in my front yard for 3 years. It is a show-stopper, and very carefree. It blooms profusely, and the lilac-lavendar color is excepetional. I wish it had a stronger scent, but the flowers are so lovely and well formed it's a thrill to give a bouquet away. And I never fail to thank God I live in America, and many soldiers gave their lives for my freedom - even to have a garden.
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 MAY 10 by anonymous-377685
Does you bush have a problem with weak necks, like a tea rose?
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most recent 2 MAY 10 SHOW ALL
 
Initial post 31 AUG 07 by Warski
This will be year two of my ownwership of Evening Star. I've grown her from a cutting, because she is, evidently, out of fashion at present. (I couldn't tell you why, as this rose is a true beauty.) Her blooms are a rich, creamy white, with a sensual thickness to her petals. Her foliage is a dark green semi-gloss and her fragrance is sweet and thick in the air. So far, she's reached only two feet in height, but is thriving with 4 hours of afternoon sun here in LA. Even at this young age, she promises to be one of the great roses in my garden. One more thing: I know Evening Star to be a Hybrid Tea, not a Floribunda - all my literature from the 70s and 80s lists her as such. If anyone knows how this happened, please, enlighten me.
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Reply #1 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Mike Gleason's Rose Gardens
Warski,

This rose is available commercially from Roses Unlimited. You do have to look under the floribunda section of their catalog to find it. In all my books this is also listed as a floribunda.
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Reply #2 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Warski
Dear Gleason's, I actually, ordered this very rose from Roses Unlimited three years ago, after having known about it since 1975 or 6. There is no way that I have enough knowledge to say that Evening Star is a true hybrid tea, however, I have seen it listed both ways. My experience with it tends to make me believe it is an HT because of its form - one bloom per stem, long stems, medium height at present, not continual bloom, but nice repeat.
As time goes on, it will be interesting to see if its stature changes. In any case, I'm happy with either classification. Happy too that you replied. Thank you.
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Reply #3 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Mike Gleason's Rose Gardens
The reason I was even looking this up is because I am thinking about adding this to my collection, and want to get it as a (VID) from the FPMS program at Univ Cal-Davis. I did not know anything about it, so I pulled out some books, and read up on it. All books love it, and everyone out here seems to also.
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Reply #5 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Warski
I'm not familiar with FPMS other than its being a test/share program for growers. It doesn't usually include the individual. Roses Unlimited's cutting served me very well. However, I certainly recommend this rose. It is lush, (foliage and bloom) and very disease resistant. If there's disappointment, it's that the open bloom lasts too short a time - around 5 days, as opposed to what we've become used to with some of the newer HTs - Sheer Magic, Vet's Honor, Gemini and the like. (Again, here I go with the HT)
If your able to get to Huntington Gardens in Pasadena CA, they have a beautiful specimen on their grounds.
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Reply #4 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Cass
Hi, Warski,
'Evening Star'/Jacven was patented as "intermediate in type between hybrid tea and floribunda" and is a cross of a HT and a Floribunda. The ARS registration is as a Floribunda. So that's the origin of the why classification for this rose isn't easy but why it's called a Floribunda.
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Reply #6 of 8 posted 15 MAR 08 by Warski
Thanks Cass, Great to know. I'll go with that. Floribunda, Floribunda, Floribunda. I'll have to do a bit of conditioning to the brain - like reversing muscle memory - but I can handle it. It's amazing that after year, there are two responses to my original question. I'm very grateful.
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Reply #7 of 8 posted 28 MAY 08 by timdufelmeier
It has been officially listed as the original For-Tea in at least one rose book (the Ultimate Rose Book?)- I've never seen any others follow in that category. It does consistently deliver the most perfectly formed buds of any white rose that I 've seen and I used to collect whites: White Lightning, Jack Frost, White Queen, JFK, Tineke, Cystaline, Frau Karl Druski, White Simplicity, Mme AlfredCarriier, Dudley Cross, Iceberg, French Lace, Honor, Pristine, Sheer Bliss.
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Reply #8 of 8 posted 2 MAY 10 by anonymous-377685
I believe it was peddled as the first "Flortea", an idea that never caught on. I also grow it in LA and though it's being smothered by of Bird of Paradise it does ok. It has hearbreakingly beautiful form with every bud.
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