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Jonathan Windham
most recent 3 days ago HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 3 days ago by jkew
Would it be possible to either download or have access to the helpmefind underlying database? I don't want to create a competing site at all, but my wife and I are amateur hybridizers and I want to be able to use some of the information for research and analysis. I think we would certainly be willing to sign an agreement to not distribute or share information.

-John Kew
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Reply #1 of 4 posted 3 days ago by jedmar
I do not want to speak for HMF, but why would you need that? There are many amateur and üprofessional breeders among the members who are premium members as you are and have access to the parentage and descendant information.
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Reply #2 of 4 posted 3 days ago by jkew
I use data like that to perform a regression analysis on crosses and the different attributes, or essentially create a statistical model to predict, ahead of time, the probability of success for any particular cross. Right now we have about 200 roses, and the data is incomplete or missing on a lot of them so it’s hard to draw real conclusions.

[Edit] So attached is a really simple example from our data from crosses my wife or I have performed. It shows the probability that of a hip based upon the ploidy of the parents, but the data below should be regarded as suspect because the sample size is low in a few areas ( few triploids and hexaploids in our garden). There is an existing academic paper which does the same analysis but it has other limitations.

Another fun thing might be to create a "lineage" animation of growth and diversity based on the HMF data over time. There's just a lot of interesting things to do once you can access a lot of the data all at once in a relational ( non-web ) database.

[Edit 2] I just realized that by "that" you mean the idea of signing a non-distribution agreement. HMF supports itself by providing this data through their web interface. I just want the data in bulk, but I don't want to create a competing site, so to protect HMF's interests they may want me to agree to not distribute the data further. I *could* manually enter in a low of data; but that's a lot of typing.

-John
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Reply #3 of 4 posted 3 days ago by Jonathan Windham
Be aware that many of the lineages of the older roses are possibly incorrect. Sometimes this was done on purpose to thwart competition. Sometimes records are missing and it was just the breeder's best guess. That could mess with your results.
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Reply #4 of 4 posted 3 days ago by Give me caffeine
It'd be a very rare site admin who would grant you direct access to the live database. You might, if you were lucky, get db dumps of certain specific tables. I expect that even if they did agree to this (and they are under no obligation to) they would want something for it. This is not going to be a small database, and large ones tend to be somewhat gnarly to work with.
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most recent 11 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 10 JAN by Jonathan Windham
Rose Listing Omission

Rosa x binaloudensis

“ Rosa x binaloudensis, a new natural hybrid between R. beggeriana and R. persica is described and characterized after analyzing a set of morphological and molecular data. The putative hybrid with a small population occurs in the mountainous area of northeastern Iran.”

And

“ analysis confirmed the occurrence of the hybridization between the proposed parental species, R. beggeriana and R. persica. By using the chloroplastic trnL-F sequences, our phylogenetic reconstruction revealed that R. persica has played as a maternal role in the hybridization.”

https://www.biotaxa.org/Phytotaxa/article/view/phytotaxa.411.1.2

Photos: http://novataxa.blogspot.com/2019/07/rosa-x-binaloudensis.html?m=1
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 11 JAN by jedmar
Thank you, added. Very interesting! I personally think R. beggeriana has hybridized with more species than acknowledged.
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most recent 7 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 7 JAN by Rupert, Kim L.
Lovely, Jonathan! Do you detect any of the "Noble Fir with hardwood smoke" scent from the new growth tips?
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 7 JAN by Jonathan Windham
Thank you Kim! I haven't thought to check. I'll have to let you know!

Tom Silvers actually performed the cross palustris x fedtschenkoana long before I did. As far as I know, his hybrid is the first recorded instance of these two species crossing.

http://maprc.blogspot.com/2014/08/rosa-palustris-x-fedtschenkoana.html
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most recent 6 JAN HIDE POSTS
 
Initial post 6 JAN by Jay-Jay
Nice and promising prickles this-one!
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Reply #1 of 1 posted 6 JAN by Jonathan Windham
Thank you!
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