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billy teabag
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Does anyone have any information on how Jean Ducher performs as a cut flower?
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It's not on the Tea book list of good cut flowers. Generally roses with fewer petals shatter faster than double ones.
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Thanks for the prompt reply Margaret!
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If you are just cutting for your own home, she blooms profusely so can always offer a bloom or two for next to the bed or on the table. And watching her buds open inside is very pleasing.
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Are you referring to the original Jean Ducher (prickly stems, hated cool or wet conditions) or the thornless rose in commerce under this name which is actually G. Nabonnand?
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I didn't flag the incorrect name, as I assumed the original Jean Ducher was extinct, and therefore Silvermoss was referring to G Nabonnand.
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My rose is definitely not thornless. Wish she was!
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Exciting news if the original Jean Ducher does still exist FeralBlossom! I would love to see/read detailed photos and descriptions of your rose, and to hear about its history, as most roses sold under that name are G. Nabonnand. Embarrassing admission re G. Nabonnand. I grew it, tended it and cut hundreds of blooms from it for quite a few years before realising that the stems were bare of prickles and I'm thinking it must be because the little prickles that run down the backs of the leaves are so sharp.
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There is a "Jean Ducher" being sold by Wagner's (Australia) at the moment. Which one would it be? The description on their website says the following:
"A hardy, easy to grow rose that deserves a spot in the garden, with its salmon-pink colouring washed with yellow and near thornless branches. Jean Ducher has a bushy upright habit with dark green dense foliage.
Fragrance: Strong.
Height: to 150cm.
Category: Tea"
Are they actually selling G Nabonnand then?
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Highly likely Silvermoss. It's based on a mistaken identification in the 1970s and was widely distributed under the incorrect name. Over time it became clear that an error had been made and that the original Jean Ducher was a very different rose but many nurseries are not interested in correcting the name.
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Did it repeat when grown in the pot in Switzerland Jedmar?
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#1 of 3 posted
1 MAY 23 by
jedmar
No, once it had 2 blooms in September, that was all. It doesn't repeat in the new location in France either. I has just grown to be a monster and has a very lush bloom in April-May. Possibly it needs pruning for a second bloom.
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It looks a glorious thing in your photos.
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#3 of 3 posted
6 MAY 23 by
jedmar
It showed its full glory only after the move to Burgundy.
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My huge bush is very prickly. I'm not sure why it is described as being thornless or nearly so.
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You are right! It is definitely well-armed.
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Probably because of the 1936 reference which said " few thick prickles". Armature now corrected. Thanks to you both.
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I wonder what Peter Beales was selling under this name in the 1980’s. In four of his catalogues he said it was a useful shorter rose, 3 feet high x 2 feet wide.
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#4 of 7 posted
2 MAY 19 by
HubertG
I blame Peter Beales for my entirely inappropriate planting of 'General Schablikine' lol. I had bought his book and read the "shorter" reference and planted it at the front of a bed. It's now HUGE! I wish I had known back then how big it grows in our climate.
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#5 of 7 posted
20 APR 23 by
Hamanasu
I wish my G. Schablikine in England had grown as tall as 3'! If Beales' plant ever grew to that height in England he was very lucky, and it must be because everything is grafted over here. My own-root plant (imported from Italy, identity indisputable) has never grown to even half that size in England. In fact, it's been growing backwards. Floriferous and always the first to bloom in the first couple of years after import (perhaps it had stored enough energy in Liguria's climate to keep going for that long once relocated to Old Blighty) it has now ben pretty much flowerless and refusing to put out any decent growth for the last 3 years or so. I almost disposed of it today, but then I saw some new roots, so I will give it a few more months... and then out it goes if things don't improve. I think the General simply hates England's long cool (cold) springs and is less than impressed by her short cool summers. Considering that in warmer countries this is a winter bloomer, you'd think it would do well in an English spring; my conclusion is that a Liguria winter must be milder than an English spring.
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#6 of 7 posted
30 APR 23 by
HubertG
Hamanasu, it's worth persisting with in my opinion. Teas often don't do a lot in the first couple of years even in a warm climate and then really take off at some point, so perhaps yours is just a bit slower to establish because of the climate. Maybe give it some foliar liquid fertiliser. In my location in Sydney I find 'General Schablikine' has it's best flowers and fragrance in winter, so it should be rewarding for you to persist with it a little longer. This rose has become one of my favourites.
My bush did get huge and because it was also near a fence that had to be replaced I was forced to hard-prune it. I was a bit hesitant at first because I didn't want to be so harsh as to it to lose it, but I always remembered what Alister Clark had written about his bushes of 'General Schablikine', namely that his wife insisted they be pruned back hard; he did, and they bounced back well. I hard-pruned only about half my bush - just the essential part near the fence - and before long it put out strong new growth. I'm confident that the rest can be pruned back hard later on when I have time.
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#7 of 7 posted
30 APR 23 by
Hamanasu
Thank you for this encouraging information. I do love this rose, with its unusual flower shape and unique scent. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this summer it will do something. Nearly all my other teas have put out flower buds and should bloom within a month. The General, alas, is stalling.
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This rose has really lovely foliage. It wants to grow pretty bushy for a tea, and seems healthy so far (I bought it as a band last fall and it’s in a pot in my nice, relatively-warm porch for the winter). Hoping it does well once I plant it in the flower bed.
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Does your plant have prickles on the stems?
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None that I could see. There might be some hiding under the leaves, but I didn’t find any.
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Which might eliminate ‘Amazone’ as one of the contenders for “Bermuda Soncy”. An 1875 artist has drawn in some pretty ferocious prickles for ‘Amazone’.
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Everything is very open with a clear description of the issues. It was truly informative. Your website is very helpful. Many thanks for sharing!
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