HelpMeFind Roses, Clematis and Peonies
Roses, Clematis and Peonies
and everything gardening related.
DescriptionPhotosLineageAwardsReferencesMember RatingsMember CommentsMember JournalsCuttingsGardensBuy From 
'Spirit of Ocean City' rose Reviews & Comments
Discussion id : 118-629
most recent 1 APR 21 SHOW ALL
Initial post 7 OCT 19 by odinthor
Perhaps I have overlooked something and this is a silly question; but if this rose was introduced as 'Spirit of Ocean City', why is it called 'Canadian Sunset'?
Reply #1 of 11 posted 8 OCT 19 by jedmar
Most breeders nowadays introduce a rose under different trade names in different countries. Apparently, 'Spirit of Ocean City' would not have sold as well in Canada as 'Canadian Sunset'.
Reply #2 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor
But surely the original introduction name has priority; and I note in these HMF comments that the breeder himself continues calling it 'Spirit of Ocean City'. Just within the last week I was reading comments in the American Rose Annual--J. Horace McFarland was writing, I believe--lamenting the re-naming of already-introduced roses (thus, 'Joseph Guy', not 'Lafayette'). And here we are, so many years later . . .
Reply #3 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by jedmar
I am not sure I understand the point. The synonyms are not prioritised. If you search for 'Spirit of Ocean City' that name will be shown at the top and in your comments.
Reply #4 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by odinthor
Primarily, I'm just expressing general dismay that roses which already have one name are given another (not lodging a complaint about HMF). Not everyone understands that the concept of "synonyms" is a bit different in biological nomenclature (in which names have, or don't have, priority) than it is in general word usage and lexicography (in which all true synonyms are more or less of equal merit), and consequently some will think that it's as proper to use a name with less priority as it is to use one with greater priority, or don't concern themselves with making a distinction.
Reply #5 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by Marlorena
...this has been going on forever hasn't it? I don't like it either, I wish they would keep their original names, but lots of roses introduced here in England have gone through an unfortunate name change... e.g. Julia Child = Absolutely Fabulous... and your 'Fourth of July' is 'Crazy For You' over here.... which I think is rather funny considering the history...
Reply #8 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Nastarana
I don't like it either but it is not illegal. The late John Clements was notorious for the practice. And, there are gardeners who simply will not buy any plant which has what they consider a stuck up fancy pants name. And then the adorable chipmunks and rainbows crowd wants sentimental names, the stickier and ickier the better, it seems to me. I gather that breeders working for companies like pre-bankruptcy J&P had no control over which rose would be introduced nor over names.
Reply #10 of 11 posted 11 OCT 19 by jedmar
...chipmunks and rainbows crowd?
Reply #11 of 11 posted 1 APR 21 by Michael Garhart
its slang for idealistic hippy folk lol
Reply #6 of 11 posted 9 OCT 19 by jedmar
I personally don't like it either, however it seems now standard marketing practice to have different names for the same rose in different markets. Another unfortunate practice from the point of view of the gardener is the recycling of names. The known "brand" is thus passed on to a new rose which has another 20 years of patent protection. There is a lot of effort on our side to try to bring some light into this jungle. Some nursery companies have now stopped publishing the unique breeder codes of their novelties, probably to make it more difficult to assign the synonyms. This is short-sighted.
Reply #7 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Margaret Furness
Alister Clark complained about it in 1930. See the reference recently added to William R. Smith by Billy Teabag.
Reply #9 of 11 posted 10 OCT 19 by Marlorena
Some German names are problematic for us in it isn't surprising they get changed really... I mean I can't imagine anyone here picking up a rose named 'Herz Ass' [Tantau rose]….unless as some kind of a joke... I might though, as I would 'Mainzer Fastnacht'...but most would be put off by that I think, but change it to 'Blue Moon' and it's been a winner for decades...
Discussion id : 75-814
most recent 1 JAN 14 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 1 JAN 14 by Dianne's Southwest Idaho Rose Garden
This is an attractive garden rose, but the vibrant colors seem to fade very quickly, which was a disappointment to me.
Discussion id : 42-223
most recent 2 FEB 10 HIDE POSTS
Initial post 2 FEB 10 by Ben R. Williams
Hello Alex or Steve,
this is Ben Williams. I wanted you to correct a mistake on the site for Spirit of Ocean City rose and another pages. We are not a nursery at J.B.Williams and Associates but rather a rose breeding and consulting service. We do not sell plants either wholesale nor retail. Thanks for the correction.
Ben Williams

PS. I just returned from visiting June Benardella and her family in Freehold, NJ. on the event for Frank's passing. The rose world lost a wonderful man and true giant on the world of rose hybridizing. We will all miss him and his inspiring love of roses and people!(please do not quote me at this time)
Reply #1 of 1 posted 2 FEB 10 by HMF Admin

Understood. We'll see how we can best deal with this rather different designation.
© 2024