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Discussion id : 114-382
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Initial post today by Darrell
Why are Roselover's two photos contained under 'Talisman'?
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Discussion id : 114-369
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Initial post yesterday by Michael Garhart
PP21,577
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Reply #1 of 1 posted today by Patricia Routley
Thank you Michael
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Discussion id : 114-359
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Initial post yesterday by Margaret Furness
I feel stupid asking this, as Excelsa is wichurana / luciae and Turner's Crimson is multiflora, but would someone who grows both please post comparison photos? Trying to ID a foundling. It has feathery stipules, but so does what I assume to be Hiawatha (luciae) from the same roadside patch.
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Reply #1 of 11 posted yesterday by Patricia Routley
Quit feeling stupid. You’re LOOKING at a rose and that is smart. It is well known that most multifloras have feathery stipules, but in my garden most wich’s ALSO have this trait. Just take a look at the parentage tree of ‘Excelsa’ and you will see where the feathery stipules come from.
I think basically, a multi has matt leaves and a wich has shiny. Ignore the word luciae - just concentrate on multi and wich. You might also like to read the 2008 reference for ‘Turner’s Crimson Rambler’ which may help you know what sort of bush it is.
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Reply #2 of 11 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Hello Margaret,
Here are leaves from 'Excelsa' and 'Turner's Crimson'. 'T C' has a more shrub like grow whilst 'E' shoots are quite brambly with its Wichurana blood. 'T C' often has two little leaflets by the stipule facing the opposite way to the other leaves. There is a good picture that Patricia has posted of 'T. C'. 'T. C' leaves are paler and generally not so shiny as 'E'. Both have featery stipules but 'T. C' are particularly bristly.
Regards Andrew.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.147304
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Reply #3 of 11 posted yesterday by Margaret Furness
Thanks Andrew. I have the impression from your photo that Excelsa's leaves are slightly rounded, compared to Turner's Crimson.
Ramblers are survivors here, reflecting their ability to root down (layer themselves). I'm adding a couple of photos of what I think is Excelsa, where it can't have been watered for decades. The first has Excelsa in the foreground, Hiawatha climbing the tree; fortunately both just reach the road verge now, because you don't walk into places like that in summer. The second photo is an old country churchyard, which I like for the horse-trough in the foreground.
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Reply #4 of 11 posted yesterday by Andrew from Dolton
Yes, 'Turner's Crimson' leaves are much more pointed and multiflora like. I found my 'Turner's Crimson' in a derelict mill along with what I believed to be 'Paul Ricault' but it now appears to be 'Paul Perras'. I know you aren't having anymore roses but 'Turner's Crimson' is such a historically important rose, and pretty as well.
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Reply #5 of 11 posted today by Patricia Routley
I am not sure if this will help - the photo might be too small. I have included some ‘Mlle Cecile Brunner’ buds to help discern the ‘Dorothy Perkins’ pink colour.
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Reply #6 of 11 posted today by Margaret Furness
Maybe not! It makes Turner's Crimson's leaves look rounded. Thank you anyway.
I'm collecting cuttings of ramblers to try to make sure one nursery has a full house as far as those in SA go. very few nurseries selling heritage roses are left in Aus now.
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Reply #7 of 11 posted today by Andrew from Dolton
Here is a picture of a foundling rose that was later identified as 'Turner's Crimson', it shows the slight puckering of the leaves (Bullate?) quite well.

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=21.319991

Ed. The member Palustris has many good pictures of these types of ramblers including 'Excelsa'.
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Reply #9 of 11 posted today by Palustris
Andrew, that plant can't be 'Turner's Crimson Rambler'. Look at the pedicels: they should be covered with tiny hairs. I can't believe I don't have any good photos of it. Next year I'll take some good photos.
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Reply #10 of 11 posted today by Andrew from Dolton
Oh! That's interesting. I wonder what this rose could be!? The plant I took my cuttings off would have been planted around 70 years ago and is grown in other gardens in the village too.
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Reply #11 of 11 posted today by Palustris
I'm not certain, but the color looks about right for TCR.
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Reply #8 of 11 posted today by Palustris
'Excelsa' and 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' are quite distinct once you have had the opportunity to see them both in full flower. TCR has much more maroon flowers than 'Excelsa' whose flowers are red fading to a dull pink. However, the absolutely easiest method it to look at the pedicels. On TCR they are absolutely covered with a profusion of tiny hairs.

This can be easily seen in Patricia's photo: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.187524

It can also be seen in the picture from the book: Rosenbuch für Gartenliebhaber by J. Hoffmann, Berlin

Once the plants are out of flower, identifying them may be more difficult.
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Discussion id : 114-349
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Initial post 2 days ago by Gdisaz10
How is disease resistance of this rose? Only good?
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Reply #1 of 1 posted today by Nastarana
In CA the disease resistance was excellent. I don't remember even seeing mildew.
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