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Discussion id : 111-853
most recent 1 JUL HIDE POSTS
Initial post 30 JUN by Andrew from Dolton
What is this?
I saw this rose growing in a garden in my nearest town, Barnstaple... and rustled a cutting... It made a sprawling rambler growing into trees and shrubs. Its main flowering is mid-summer but it has an odd flower or two later on. When the flowers are newly open there is a noticeable pale orange/yellow patch at the base of the petals. I thought at first it was 'Cerise Bouquet' but now I am thinking it looks more like 'Alexander Girault'.
Reply #1 of 2 posted 30 JUN by Patricia Routley
'Alexander Girault' seems a pretty good guess. Are your leaves shiny enough?
Reply #2 of 2 posted 1 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
The leaves are really shiny, yes that's it, thank you Patricia.
Discussion id : 111-850
most recent 1 JUL HIDE POSTS
Initial post 30 JUN by Andrew from Dolton
What is this?
This rose grows all over my village in Devon. I also found it in the remains of a garden of a derelict mill where it must have been growing for a least 60 years. I thought it might have been 'Turner's Crimson', but it isn't. In Roger's Phillips rose book it looks quite like 'Purpurtram', but it doesn't look like the pictures in that profile on HMF. The flowers are darker and foliage paler and less glossy than 'Excelsa'.
Reply #1 of 4 posted 30 JUN by Margaret Furness
Would Excelsa fit?
Reply #2 of 4 posted 30 JUN by Andrew from Dolton
It is close, but this rose has less glossy, paler and more pointed leaves, closer to Rosa multiflora. The flowers are darker, almost slightly purplish as the finish.
Reply #3 of 4 posted 30 JUN by Patricia Routley
Why do you think it isn't 'Turner's Crimson Rambler' Andrew?
Reply #4 of 4 posted 1 JUL by Andrew from Dolton
I discounted that because I didn't think it would grow that well in our climate here. It definately can survive neglect. But looking at the 'Turner's Crimson' profile I think you're right (again!).

The rose growing near the wall was hacked back by the house owner every autumn and hardly flowered. I got so frustrated about this that last year I knocked on the lady's door one day and said, "WILL YOU PLEASE STOP PRUNING THAT ROSE!" Which she did, and was amazed this year at how well it flowered!
Discussion id : 110-156
most recent 30 APR SHOW ALL
Initial post 23 APR by rafael maino
Found tea, noisette? rose in Buenos Aires Province, Argentina. Vigorous, fragrant flowers, double or semi double, beautiful when buds, open loose,bushy, 250 cm high x 200 cm width. It flower all season, occasional repeat, later in the season, middle green leaves.I ask if It could be 'L'Ideal', G. Nabonnand 1887??
Reply #1 of 13 posted 23 APR by Patricia Routley
Hello Rafael,
My gut feeling is that it is not 'L'Ideal'. I spent a couple of hours adding a few more references to the 'L'Ideal' file and it seems that 'L'Ideal' may have been small to medium plant, with a small to medium sized, semi-double bloom. It was often mentioned alongside 'William Allen Richardson' and I think that may be a smaller sized bloom. Your photo with your hand in it (315489) seems to show quite a large bloom. Another gut feeling (of which I am not quite sure about) is that blooms with that spiky pointed outline might be that of a more modern rose. I really hope that other people might contribute their thoughts on this beautiful rose.

Perhaps it might be valuable to look at 'L'Ideal's descendants to see if any tiny scrap of knowledge can be gleaned from those roses.

If you would like us to make a file for your foundling, please let us know the "study name".
Reply #2 of 13 posted 23 APR by Margaret Furness
A wonderful find, whatever it is!
Reply #4 of 13 posted 23 APR by rafael maino
And Thank you Margaret!!!, she is very pretty in bud....not so much when open....but have a good fragrance
Reply #3 of 13 posted 23 APR by rafael maino
Thank you Patricia for your interest!!, I take cuttings from the plant (from Buenos Aires) and now grows in my garden, with very different climate and soil ( and I hope she pass the winter...this is the third...), I think that many characteristics match with the references of L'Ideal, especially the color and shape of the flowers when it said that have very good shape in bud, loose when expanded...and it's not so big, no more than 8 cm diameter. Any way this is a strange rose, and L'Ideal become a strange rose too since there are no photos at all, only the chromolithography.
Best regards!!
Reply #5 of 13 posted 23 APR by rafael maino
I give her a study name "Juani de Temperley", Juani is a affectionate diminutive of Juana, the name of the lady owner of the garden where I found the rose, and Temperley is a suburb of Buenos Aires, originally inhabited by many English immigrants.
Reply #6 of 13 posted 23 APR by Patricia Routley
File opened. Let's leave the photos where they are for a couple of days to give others a chance to look at them and respond.
Reply #7 of 13 posted 24 APR by HubertG
How's this for being fanciful/imaginative?

Louise Bourbonnaud was a wealthy Parisian philanthropist and socialite who I believe travelled extensively including to Buenos Airies. She had a Nabonnand rose named after her. Perhaps someone (English or not) had met her during her travels and ordered her rose to grow. The description seems to match fairly well. 'Louise Bourbonnaud' is from G. Nabonnand x Gen. Schablikine.

Chances are it isn't this, but something to think about.
Reply #8 of 13 posted 25 APR by Patricia Routley
Rafael, is there any history attached to the rose? (how long it has been there). I am not sure if the size of the stump (base) will be of any use, as the stump of a 50 year old rose might be the same as that of a 100 year old rose.
You say " It flower all season, occasional repeat, later in the season". Can you be more definite in that?
Does it set hips? Any photos?
Reply #9 of 13 posted 26 APR by Margaret Furness
Teas can get very big, and some don't take long to do it. Do you think your Juani is a climber, or just an old bush?
Reply #10 of 13 posted 26 APR by rafael maino
Hi Patricia and Margaret!, I'm sorry but I can't answer about how old is the "mother" plant, and how it was treated (pruned, etc) to know the size of the plant (people here sometimes prune the roses like HT...), any way she seemed not so pruned at all or not so much...I am telling this vagueness because I am now in my house in Patagonia and the rose it's in Buenos Aires, and the owner is not a close friend (and she is an old lady...). But I remember when I saw the rose was nearly end of autumn and it have only a few flowers and buds (and Buenos Aires have a very temperate climate), the plant looked very vigorous and healthy, and was about 250 cm high (2,50 m), it don't look like a climber, rather bushy. My plant that I take from cuttings it's well growing here in my garden, it's almost three years old and it's near 90 cm high now, it flower all season in flushes, but now (autumn) have no buds and I think she is going to sleep!!, I think it does no hips but any way we must consider that my plant it's very young, and probably she will do when grows. I put a photo here of the general look of the plant mother, I don't know if the photo shows well the appearance. I will try to talk with the lady colleague of AsociaciĆ³n Argentina de Rosicultura, Buenos Aires, who take me to see the rose to her friend house, may be she can send me more photos. Thank you Ladies!!
Reply #11 of 13 posted 26 APR by Patricia Routley
Our pleasure Rafael.
Reply #12 of 13 posted 27 APR by Patricia Routley
I think it is time to move those photos now. I'll do it for you Rafael. It is a great pity that nobody has replied publicly, but I have shared in a private email from a rosarian who had a most interesting thought on this rose. I'll get her permission to share it with you in the new file.
Reply #13 of 13 posted 30 APR by rafael maino
Thank you Patricia!!
Discussion id : 109-437
most recent 22 MAR HIDE POSTS
Initial post 21 MAR by Ozoldroser
"Vine View Dk Red Purple" I would like to make a new file for this rose. Alerted to this garden in Williamstown, South Australia by the owner in April 2014. At first I thought it was a HP but not so sure now. This cutting grown plant is in some shade and is regularly watered with rainwater and fertilised
Reply #1 of 5 posted 21 MAR by Jay-Jay
Reminds me a bit of Souvenir du Docteur Jamain. (See my post of may 6 2017 for that rose)
Reply #2 of 5 posted 21 MAR by Patricia Routley
New file for "Vine View Dark Red Purple" opened and photos moved. I will comment further in that file.
Reply #3 of 5 posted 22 MAR by Ozoldroser
Thank you Jay-Jay many of the descriptions of 'Souvenir du Dr. Jamain' fit this rose. Perfume I would rate higher though.
Reply #4 of 5 posted 22 MAR by Jay-Jay
I would rate it (much) higher too, as You might read in one comment for that rose.
Lots of people, that visit our garden, fell as a block for this rose, mainly due to the scent, but to the color, the ability to grow in the (partial) shade and the (almost) lack of prickles too.
It stands at the entrance of our garden to be sniffed regularly, when flowering... and that's what I do.

PS: Members rate the scent as excellent too.
Maybe an idea to rate scent in:
- absent
- faint
- present
- strong
- very strong
- overwhelming
Reply #5 of 5 posted 22 MAR by Ozoldroser
Thank you Jay-Jay.
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